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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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JB: Pulling the bolt back all the way is the trick and "good form" I was trying to explain the theory and mechanics of one vs the other.I know neither system is infallible...I haven't ever had a problem with a CRF or a PF but then I have made a point of practicing quite a bit years past,so they haven't given me any trouble. I do like the feel of a controlled feed a lot better....kind of like the difference between a stick and auto transmission,where you can feel he action run through its paces Lefty all I can say is that if that guide is seeing lots of jams with Mausers and Winchesters he must be guiding a bunch of boobs. I hardly think it has a thing to do with the inherent superiorty of the other actions.
Last edited by BobinNH; 12/15/12.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Bob,
You did an excellent job of describing the theory and mechanics. i was just adding some of my experience.
I might also add that I firmly believe the 98 Mauser is still the most reliable bolt-action in every basic way. The pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester (or the M70 Classic) is good but for several reasons doesn't measure up except in peripheral ways, such as the safety and trigger. But the heart of the 98 action is superior, both in extraction and gas handling.
One of the best of the newer CRF actions is the Montana 1999 action. It was designed to combine the best features of the 98 and M70, and pretty much succeeded!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Bob,
WellI don't know if they were boobs or not, but when a big brownie stans up about 20 yards away it's easy to be somewhat "boob like". At least for a while.
LC
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Bob,
You did an excellent job of describing the theory and mechanics. i was just adding some of my experience.
I might also add that I firmly believe the 98 Mauser is still the most reliable bolt-action in every basic way. The pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester (or the M70 Classic) is good but for several reasons doesn't measure up except in peripheral ways, such as the safety and trigger. But the heart of the 98 action is superior, both in extraction and gas handling.
One of the best of the newer CRF actions is the Montana 1999 action. It was designed to combine the best features of the 98 and M70, and pretty much succeeded! JB: Yes in its purest form I think the 98 is the better mousetrap.There are features it has that distinguish it from the M70 and I think it is somewhat "tougher" in some regards.I like them best when they are set up like a M70, though and really like the new trigger that Alaskan outfit makes for the Mauser. Lefty: I can understand the boob-like behaviour around brown bears.Thats when your muscle memory had better take over.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
One of the best of the newer CRF actions is the Montana 1999 action. It was designed to combine the best features of the 98 and M70, and pretty much succeeded! Could you explain the specific good points of the Montana action? What exactly are the best points from both worlds?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2006
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Push fed Weatherby MK V Ultralight in .300 wby, 200 gr Nosler Partition. Dead on impact. 10 ft 1 X 28"
Proud NRA Life Member
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Very nice Brown Bear Salmonella! Very potent combo.
I tend to use more than enough gun
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have many discusions with D Lazer, master Alaskan guide. He has been involved in over 300 brown/grizzly kills. The most jams have come from M70 winchesers and mausers. Remingtons and the tang safety Ruger M77's have been the most reliable. His back up rifle is a tang safety M77 30-06 loaded with 220 gr factory.
Lefty C I worked for Dave one sheep season in 1980 and have been guiding ever since. I see him from time to time on the Alaska peninsula and although he is active I don't think the AK F&G records will show that he has anywhere near 300 bear kills. He does still use his old 30-06 but is not all that knowledgeable about rifles.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
One of the best of the newer CRF actions is the Montana 1999 action. It was designed to combine the best features of the 98 and M70, and pretty much succeeded! Could you explain the specific good points of the Montana action? What exactly are the best points from both worlds? DD: Not JB but from what I know of it,and IIRC the Montana has a Mauser 98-type breach vs the M70,so would handle escaping gas somewhat better.There may be other differences I'm not aware of.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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All my hunting is done with a Mauser of one form or another......when I push, they feed.
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Posts: 424
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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How many Bear kills does D Lazer have ?
I killed my Brn. Bear with a Weatherby Mark V Push Feed .340 250 Gr. N.P.
10'10" by 28 3/16"
I am going for Grizzly in May with a R700 .300 W.M. Push Feed.
That being said, if you have an appropriate CRF rifle, all things being equal I would use that.
N.R.A. Endowment Life Member
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Kind of off the exact topic, but I have noticed that my Sako Finnbear acts like a CRF as the feeding round snaps into the bolt face and is retained quite firmly- cannot be removed without withdrawing the bolt far enough to let the bullet clear the front ring. Kinda gives more credibility to this old action after all! I have run it as fast as I can move the bolt and cannot induce a jam. I would use it on bears for sure.
I have seen two 700s where the extractors failed. I have also seen one tang safety ruger where the extractor broke in the first box of ammo- no doubt flawed from the get-go.
I think that anyone who goes into battle, whether against soldiers or dangerous game, without wringing out their rifle in real-life like situations, deserves whatever hand they are dealt.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Phil,
I just saw your post. I don't know for sure if 300 is correct but I spent a evening at his house going through piles of alblums...40 years worth and there were a lot of dead bears.
You are correct that he certainly is no gun enthsiast but he has indicated he had more problem with winchester and Mausers? than Rugers and Remingtons.
Thanks lefty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,392 |
Nice bear. Love that coloration on him. What bullet? Thanks.... 250 Partition broke the off shoulder, found just under the hide.... yup that looks like a Partition all rite...all thats left is the Partition....a bucher buddy of my (since 77')with cofee cans full of bullets- hates that bullet..i wounder why......BTW...does my 1885 highwall (single shot) count as a push feed????--seems the bear/s die just fine...
I work harder than a ugly stripper....
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