Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The 2nd won't save us this time

I rarely start a new post (aside from the pick'em threads) and rarely partake in the political arguments. Given up on economics threads as ideology seems to trump numeric evidence. But I thought I'd do so at this time only because I haven't seen the points I want to make on any of the numerous threads.

The point it this: The 2nd Amendment won't save gun rights. Not this time.

Stubbornly hiding behind it and making the same arguments in the same way isn't going to work. Too many of these mass shooting of our most vulnerable have taken place. Most people don't give two [bleep] what the constitution says when they see pint sized body bags coming out of a kindergarten school. That is just the way it is. A man's primary function, the reason God and evolution has shaped us as we are and allowed the species to continue, is to provide, care for, and protect those around us. It is just that simple.

And in this society at this day and time we are being shown we cannot do so.

We have become a society that can grow emasculated males, unrepentant sociopaths, base men who live only to feed their lusts, and even monsters who strike out at those around them. We can grow those in droves. But men who believe mankind has a higher purpose? Men who have been instilled with what we used to term the cardinal virtues? Men who are fit to mentor and raise the next generation so that they are fit to receive the world? Seems to be a lost art.

My point is this: Of course mental illness is at the root of this shooting. We all know that. But where is the accommodation from us regarding mental illness?

Think about it. How many times have we tossed around our disdain for any government paid health care? How many employee based health plans substantially or even completely ignore mental illness? Who exactly is going to pay for getting these young men identified and out of circulation? Who among us will stand up and say that this is a prudent spending of resources? Who is going to go along with even the notion of placing young adults into custody when there is only a small but real risk that they will eventually go apeshit and murder those around them?

We had this discussion in the 80s and we decided that not only did we not wish to pay for the care and custody of mentally ill people any more than absolutely necessary but ALSO that we didn't even feel comfortable doing so. Are we ready to revisit that issue?

I bring this up not to inflame but just to offer a few questions. We talk about violent video games and a septic culture while dismissing the availability of some types of weapons that can turn a 3 person shooting into one of dozens. The other side dismisses the risk of having a septic culture and hours on end blasting away realistic men on the computer while talking about the availability of weapons that can turn a 3 person shooting into something much worse.

There is going to have to be something more than "the second amendment says so and so" this time. Might be a good time to take a look at ourselves and see what this should be.

IMvHO,
Will

The point it this: The 2nd Amendment won't save gun rights. Not this time.
...
IMvHO,
Will

In my opinion, it's actually too late. A LOT of what anti's want to take away from us was already guaranteed to us by Heller. There are lots of questions still up in the air, and high capacity magazines and semi-auto battle rifles are a couple of them. But to really strip us down to no guns they are going to have to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

The question in my mind now is how much damage can Obama do bypassing Congress.

I rarely start a new post (aside from the pick'em threads) and rarely partake in the political arguments. Given up on economics threads as ideology seems to trump numeric evidence. But I thought I'd do so at this time only because I haven't seen the points I want to make on any of the numerous threads.

The point it this: The 2nd Amendment won't save gun rights. Not this time.

Stubbornly hiding behind it and making the same arguments in the same way isn't going to work. Too many of these mass shooting of our most vulnerable have taken place. Most people don't give two [bleep] what the constitution says when they see pint sized body bags coming out of a kindergarten school. That is just the way it is. A man's primary function, the reason God and evolution has shaped us as we are and allowed the species to continue, is to provide, care for, and protect those around us. It is just that simple.

And in this society at this day and time we are being shown we cannot do so.

We have become a society that can grow emasculated males, unrepentant sociopaths, base men who live only to feed their lusts, and even monsters who strike out at those around them. We can grow those in droves. But men who believe mankind has a higher purpose? Men who have been instilled with what we used to term the cardinal virtues? Men who are fit to mentor and raise the next generation so that they are fit to receive the world? Seems to be a lost art.

My point is this: Of course mental illness is at the root of this shooting. We all know that. But where is the accommodation from us regarding mental illness?

Think about it. How many times have we tossed around our disdain for any government paid health care? How many employee based health plans substantially or even completely ignore mental illness? Who exactly is going to pay for getting these young men identified and out of circulation? Who among us will stand up and say that this is a prudent spending of resources? Who is going to go along with even the notion of placing young adults into custody when there is only a small but real risk that they will eventually go apeshit and murder those around them?

We had this discussion in the 80s and we decided that not only did we not wish to pay for the care and custody of mentally ill people any more than absolutely necessary but ALSO that we didn't even feel comfortable doing so. Are we ready to revisit that issue?

I bring this up not to inflame but just to offer a few questions. We talk about violent video games and a septic culture while dismissing the availability of some types of weapons that can turn a 3 person shooting into one of dozens. The other side dismisses the risk of having a septic culture and hours on end blasting away realistic men on the computer while talking about the availability of weapons that can turn a 3 person shooting into something much worse.

There is going to have to be something more than "the second amendment says so and so" this time. Might be a good time to take a look at ourselves and see what this should be.

IMvHO,
Will

Who exactly is going to pay for getting these young men identified and out of circulation? Who among us will stand up and say that this is a prudent spending of resources? Who is going to go along with even the notion of placing young adults into custody when there is only a small but real risk that they will eventually go apeshit and murder those around them?

We had this discussion in the 80s and we decided that not only did we not wish to pay for the care and custody of mentally ill people any more than absolutely necessary but ALSO that we didn't even feel comfortable doing so. Are we ready to revisit that issue?

I've often looked at these horrible events and wondered... how many kids are killed in car/bus wrecks on the way to school and back. Yet no one says much about this.

this whole talke of rounding up and sorting out the insane scares the bejesus out of me.

the USSR would routinely drag in a member of the loyal opposition on trumped up charge. they'd subject him to a panel of gov't paid mental health people. they'd rule him insane, even criminally so. they'd summarily asign him to the Glulag in Siberia, for rehabilitation, treatment and the good of Society. if he died from overwork, cold and malnutrition in a few years, well the State was only doing it's job.

same with China with the re-indoctrination of some of the urban elites. they'd be sent to the rural collectives to starve or be re-indoctrinated, whichever came first.

the problem or challenge with the mental health solution is there might not be a perfectly healthy one anywhere on the internet. ya know?

LMAO!

What a girl!

There were more than 1 million children aborted in 2011. Such mass murder is more than horrific, yet no one says much about that, either.

Until we begin to value human life, things are going to continue to happen.

Penny

Instead of being reactive and defensive. Lets go on offence. First offer solutions, here are some of mine:

1) Install hardened doors/locks on all schools with magnetic locks.
2) Since there are so many people afraid to carry, have all teachers wear a belt or small fanny pack at all times with a taser and pepperspray.
3) Have off duty police or retired police or paid security personell stationed at every school. (they have air mashalls on EVERY plane).
4) have CC permitted teachers actually carry in the schools. They have to have the gun ON them at all times and can't lock it in a desk or put it somewhere where a kid could get to it.

To pay for this offer to have a 1% national sales tax on all guns and ammo.

Other questionable options would be to have the school board, a psychiatrist, or a counselor notify the sheriff once a questionable kid reaches 18. Put his name on a no gun buy list. To get it off, he would have to have a psychiatrist recommend removing his name. Schizophrenia, bi-polar, and borderline personality disorders don't show up until late teens or early 20's when these type crimes are committed.

Try to stop bullying in school. Give smart kids just as much praise and reward as an athletic person.