Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The 2nd won't save us this time

KMA.

even if any school has a cop on duty, how many idiots think a determined shooter who is ready to die, still can't waste a bunch of innocent people before he is taken down...

whether it is a school, or a church or anything else...

heck I was doing support at a local high school on Friday, for a regional wrestling tournament... the High School has a cop on duty there at all times when the school is open... I even noticed that there was a state trooper parked in one of the parking lots, filling out some paperwork when I walked by...

also walking by, I noticed just looking thru a window or two from the side walk and seeing class rooms full of students going about their daily class routines...

then I got home Friday evening about 8'ish.. and find this Shooting in CT on the news....no initial shock, more like anger toward liberal society letting down some more people....

but I then thought back to just that morning of walking by the local high school, going to the gym.... seeing class rooms doing what they do on any given morning...

and thought back thinking, even with a State trooper in the parking lot over there, and a city cop on duty, somewhere in the high school... a determined shooter ready to die, could just as easily walk right up to a window with a pair of pistols and right thru glass starting killing people...

easily taking out a dozen or more before the state trooper would even have time to realize what was going on and getting out of his cruiser, with his AR 15.. and aim to take the perp down...

and even more people could be taken out, if the state trooper hadn't been in the parking lot and the school had to wait for the one city cop to find out what was happening and where it was happening, and then called in for back up by cops doing their daily patrols around town...

gun control wouldn't prevent any of this... prevention starts long before the scenario even plays out...

addressing what made this angry at the world, mentally ill losers picking up the gun and deciding to end it all, after they got their 15 minutes of Andy Warhol fame, by killing a bunch of innocent people.. just to get their name in the headlines...

and our liberal main stream media is standing by to accommodate them, both to pump up their ratings with the 'shock factor' they knew sells so well.. and them be opportunists to take advantage of another tragedy to promote their liberal political agendas...

if they aren't to blame they certain contributed to the facts each time one of these public shootings occur...


yet meanwhile in the middle east, some radical Muslim dirtbag decides to blow himself up in a school or mosque, or crowded market square.... the news covers that for about 30 seconds and then moves on to something else... regardless of how many women, children, grandmas etc get killed...

anyone else see something grossly wrong with this picture????

Horrific for people that don't have to live with daily suicide bombers, car bombs etc.

How more horrific would it be if we were one of third world countries where people can't defend themselves against tyranny.


We have lived a pretty charmed life overall.

You make a good point in accidental vs thought through so to speak.

Regardless that, even if the issue is mental, the scary part is WHO deems mental, what does it entail and were do you go from there. As a society we are way past (IMHO) the days of lock em up and let em rattle the cages until they die.

That being the case, what exactly are you going to do? Historically .gov always does the worst it can in antyhing it touches. But give them the power and who will they exactly "detain" for safety of the society?

If folks would once again stand up and defend themselves a lot less of this would be going on. A teacher has the responsibility in class of protecting that class. Why not including with a firearm?

And with mental, regardless, some will slip by a system no matter how its set up.

Bottom line you just can't make the world perfect like you'd want it to be.

Though I"d still risk living in the current society as is over a more controlled society any given day.

there's an innate resistance to some sub-groups in this country against guns while wanting to de-legalize gun ownership.

no such bias exists against the oil-tanker industry, in so far as i know. besides everybody is addicted to cheap oil, but not everyone is attracted to guns as much as some of us are.

they could harden the school zones. walls, fences and concintina wire on top. a guardpost entrance with an armed guard. how much would that cost? most industry has it already.

They've got shots and pills for this stuff. See your doctor about Testosterone replacement therapy. In the meantime, perhaps a site for nanny's or the like would suit you better.

You have no idea what Penguin said. You have no real ideas period, just an obsessive/compulsive need to rant ignorance.

He didn't once say he was retreating. He was offering another tactic that is far more realistic, under the present circumstances. You...YOU are the best example of what the MSM targets so successfully in their propaganda campaigns.

I'm willing to fight and die for my 2A rights, but it doesn't mean I'll do it dumb.

What the lady said.

Murder is murder and nothing can change that. Abortion is just a crime of convince most of the time. "I had fun screwing some stranger and now I need to murder the baby so my life will not be inconvenienced in any way." But that is just fine with most of the liberals in this country.

We will be best served if we keep this in mind during our fight for our guns and the fight for safety for all innocent humans in this country. Rush said this years ago and it struck me as a bright light of truth that has helped me understand the liberals that surround me.

A Conservative will look at a subject or an issue, gather all the evidence and facts they can, study those facts and make a logical decision on their stance based on those facts. A liberal makes ALL decisions on a subject or an issue based on their feelings.

Take a moment and think about the liberals you have listened to say "I feel" rather that "the facts or data show".

Think about that in how you write to your congressmen or how you debate a liberal. You cannot beat them with facts, facts just roll off them like the rain is rolling off the backs of my ducks outside in the garden as I type this. To change a liberal you MUST change how they feel about the issue. That is why we always loose and feel so frustrated when debating a liberal. They aren't stupid, they may seem like it when you are laying down facts but many are extremely intelligent, they are just wired differently.

To win this round we will have to meet their feelings not with cold hard facts but my changing how they feel.

Why not tell us what P meant when he said the 2A won't save us now?

As was stated in the OP the turnout of the MI into the streets was a cost cutting measure. That was promoted by the smaller gov. lower tax crowd such as yourself. It was followed by the private insurance industry offering med insurance policies without mental health coverage. So how in the hell do you blame the gov for following your wishes? For every shortcoming of society that is a direct outcome due to your wishes you end up trying to wash off your own hands.

i'll raise a glass of single-malt to that Scott.

conservatives and liberals live in different interpretations of the world due to world view. how many times have we heard that already?

the basic assumption of many liberals is that we Can make the world a better place. a lot of conservatives want to approach it from the standpoint of not allowing things to become any worse.

that's my opinion, only.

Mass murders have been around a lot longer than health insurance....

None of this is about addressing anything. Only the weak minded like Will don't understand that this is all about control and not about helping people.

There is all sorts of evidence that more guns equal less crime, and this is a crime regardless of who committed it and what their mental state was. The politicians only care about reelection and what their owners want. The ultra rich have always sought ever-more control and you cannot separate the government from the ultra-rich. Both entities will always have weapons when they want them. It is only in a free country such as ours, that others have them. It really is what separates us from slaves and subjects.

People like Will and the even weaker-minded who agree with him always step right up to "help" like the Mayor in Red Dawn. There is no solution to this. It will happen there are things that can be done to make it happen less often, but they aren't gun control or half-asssed stupidness about coming up with some "test" that will separate the "insane" from the sane. Think about how the libs would love to come up with such a thing, and who else would? They already pretty much control most science, education and psychology. Think about how the Tea Party members were called "terrorists" and such by these same people. They already think you're mentally ill. All they need is some checklist to prove it. Hell, to their way of thinking you're crazy for wanting to buy a gun in the first place.

The things that can be done are solve the current financial crisis and then keep working on building a future for our kids. Right now there is a whole generation that have little in the way of a future. People are unemployed and underemployed and the government's solution is bailouts and employing them in the very government that gave us the situation in the first place. The government is pushing things. Higher taxes, less opportunities, spending money to incarcerate people for victimless crimes...things are getting crazier all the time and people are following suit. You want to cure mental illness? Cure some of the economic problems in the country and things will get better.

Liberalism is a mental disorder. A disorder thought-process. Don't listen to those who can't think straight. Stay the course.

Not talking to you Seafire, but agreeing with you on tackling the root problems, not just some feel-good crap.

No need for that. I'll do it myself.

What I meant is this: The constitution is interpreted by the Supreme Court. And this entity has shown itself to be a very political animal. There have been decisions handed down from this august body that would make your head spin in terms of what the constitution says and how they interpret it. They have also made politically expedient decisions that would make your skin crawl in their callous disregard for human decency and dignity.

Depending on what the 2nd says or how this particular group of justices interpret it is fool's gold.

In the long run the SC will go toward what the majority of the citizenry believes, or at least what they will tolerate. The witch's cocktail of psychotic individuals having access to lethal weapons has shown itself to be one with catastrophic consequences. It is my opinion that we are reaching the point where society at large is going to force us to separate these maniacs from weapons a lot better than we have been able to accomplish thus far.

Will

What puzzles me most is...you have to go through a security check point and metal detector to go into a court house. You have to go through the same thing to board a plane. In both places they also have armed guards.

Not only do schools not allow someone to be armed, they leave the doors wide open to the world.

Not really. This is the same cognitive disconnect that the liberals use when they ignore places with high crime and violence and strong gun laws.

If what you were saying were true, Somalia and Afghanistan would be safe.

Logically, what places like Chicago tell you is that legal gun availability does not CAUSE crime. Same for places with high-gun ownership and high crime. The fact that BOTH exist shows that it is something OTHER THAN THE GUNS.

Correlation is not causation.

I think you're right on this point, Will.

I'm not sure how it's going to go down, but it's going to go down. I am saddened beyond belief by the direction our country seems to be headed.

He was telling the truth of how things might transpire, that's all. I don't like it; he doesn't like it; none of us like it.

But, tides turn, and this one isn't running our direction. To refuse to recognize it is not the smart move. We need to channel it in other directions as much as possible. Shouting at the tide doesn't do anything but vent our frustration. We need to become smarter than we have acted in the past. How about offering social solutions for preventing another mass killing of little tykes, instead of shouting "from my cold dead hands" all the time? I hold to "my cold dead hands" myself, but it isn't doing us any good to keep shouting it to a country that doesn't want to and won't hear it.

The social engineering that has allowed insane people to walk among us has to be changed. We have this hysteria as a vehicle to open that dialog. We need to be as smart as those who would quash us and use this as a counter issue. Do it rationally and without name calling. You know...smart.

The school on CT was locked and the shooter had to break in.

My understanding is many places have school entrances that resemble a TSA station at an airport.

That's ignored by those who think it's a simple matter of sorting out "normal" and "nut jobs".

Even if you don't give a rat's azz about the rights of your fellow Americans who happen to have a mental illness, the numbers would be mind boggling, and the cost/benefit miniscule.

As to the definition of mental illness, the standard authority is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, DSM IV, soon to be DSM V. It contains probably a couple of hundred different diagnostic categories. Think you know what mental illness is and is not? Think it only means raving nut jobs? Think again, and give DSM a look. You might be surprised, and you might even find yourself in there. Not directed at anybody in particular, but you might find that a certain type of counseling or a prescription you've received at some point could have a DSM coding. Bingo, you have a "history of mental illness."

Paul