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LOL I say again you're trolling way to fast and using crap for bait. But you're biting crap bait. Really this has been at least more intertaining than the rain. But say you'd better quit patting yourself on the ass your friends the few you have are surely beginning to wonder.
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I've never considered Bush a "hero" but have always respected his service. I don't feel it necessary to praise or condemn the man when I wasn't in his shoes.
Which branch of the service did you serve in, Laguna, to judge the man? Which armed conflicts did you take part in? I'm assuming, based only on a summation of your past comments, that you're of an age to have overlapped at least a couple.
George NH K9, Your reasoning is deeply flawed. Since you've never been president, you're incapable of judging the "man". The president, in theory, is a public servant just as I am. Thus, we are there to be judged, both our results and how we accomplish them. I don't hold those in the military to that level of judgement as I was never at that level of military service. They "serve" but not in the same manner. I will assume, due to your ducking yet another direct question, that you never served. I'm sure GHWB is deeply concerned with your labeling him a coward. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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I've never considered Bush a "hero" but have always respected his service. I don't feel it necessary to praise or condemn the man when I wasn't in his shoes.
Which branch of the service did you serve in, Laguna, to judge the man? Which armed conflicts did you take part in? I'm assuming, based only on a summation of your past comments, that you're of an age to have overlapped at least a couple.
George NH K9, Your reasoning is deeply flawed. Since you've never been president, you're incapable of judging the "man". The president, in theory, is a public servant just as I am. Thus, we are there to be judged, both our results and how we accomplish them. I don't hold those in the military to that level of judgement as I was never at that level of military service. They "serve" but not in the same manner. I will assume, due to your ducking yet another direct question, that you never served. I'm sure GHWB is deeply concerned with your labeling him a coward. George I have never served, but that's a red herring in effort to discredit my ability to judge his conduct. I did not need to serve to know Congressional Medal of Honor winners are all assuredly heroes. But since you haven't served, using your reasoning, you're incapable of making the same judgment. As a cop, you ought to know that juries sit in judgment of those who are accused of crimes/torts jurors never have. Using your reasoning, jurors who have never committed crimes are therefore unable to render judgment of the accused. NH K9, a judgment is nothing more than an opinion. I assume you have opinions of nothing of which you have no direct knowledge. The irony, NH K9, is you're all too quick to pass judgment on that which you disagree or do not like. BTW, military personnel are public servants.
Last edited by Laguna; 12/29/12.
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Campfire Kahuna
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The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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You make a lot of assumptions and extend specific thoughts to a broad range of situations. Par for the course with you, though, so I should expect no less.
In my original post, I asked questions and stated that I didn't feel right in judging Bush. In my second post, I again state that I won't judge the actions of those serving. Those judgements are specific to the topic.
Likewise, the public is free to judge my actions/results. For the most part, their opionions mean very little to me unless they meet a certain set of criteria (taxpayers in my community, Town Manager, LEOs, etc.). That doesn't make the opinion of others less valid, I simply don't give it any weight in my day-to-day existence.
Likewise, your judgement of Bush as a coward is as valid as any other. I simply don't give it any weight as you fail to meet the set of criteria that would make me give it any credibility, just as I'm sure that those who served in the military would give my opinion on the matter very little credence.
If TLee, EvilTwin, MontanaMarine, TAK, or many others were to make the same statement I would certainly stop for a minute to evaluate their judgement/opinion based on the criteria they meet.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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I've never considered Bush a "hero" but have always respected his service. He did not consider himself a hero but others that were there at the time and knew him did. Since I was not there nor did I know him then, I will accept their judgement. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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You make a lot of assumptions and extend specific thoughts to a broad range of situations. Par for the course with you, though, so I should expect no less.
In my original post, I asked questions and stated that I didn't feel right in judging Bush. In my second post, I again state that I won't judge the actions of those serving. Those judgements are specific to the topic.
Likewise, the public is free to judge my actions/results. For the most part, their opionions mean very little to me unless they meet a certain set of criteria (taxpayers in my community, Town Manager, LEOs, etc.). That doesn't make the opinion of others less valid, I simply don't give it any weight in my day-to-day existence.
Likewise, your judgement of Bush as a coward is as valid as any other. I simply don't give it any weight as you fail to meet the set of criteria that would make me give it any credibility, just as I'm sure that those who served in the military would give my opinion on the matter very little credence.
If TLee, EvilTwin, MontanaMarine, TAK, or many others were to make the same statement I would certainly stop for a minute to evaluate their judgement/opinion based on the criteria they meet.
George George, You assumption is that Bush being a coward originated with me. I had no knowledge of Bush bailing out of his plane to safety leaving his two crew members to die until it was brought to my attention by people who are well aware of the Bush dynasty. I was pointed to a few articles that have confirmed that Bush saved his as$ at the expense of his crew member lives'. We can all read historical accounts and draw valid conclusions. I didn't have to serve in the military to know Hitler was a maniac and, thankfully, an idiot as military tactician. I can read the Bible and make judgments about what I have to do to abide by God's law & Jesus' teachings. In other words the red herring of, "You weren't there so how do you know?" is a serious reasoning fallacy. I wasn't at Nicole Simpson's home, but I've read enough about it to know that OJ and OJ alone murdered Nicole and Ron Goldman. Hell, I didn't even need my prior cop knowledge to figure that out.
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You just made us all feel like President Reagan must have felt when some liberal would open his mouth and let the world know how much they were clueless about. LOL But say we've all had a good chuckle at your expense.
Last edited by 17ACKLEYBEE; 12/29/12.
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I've never considered Bush a "hero" but have always respected his service. He did not consider himself a hero but others that were there at the time and knew him did. Since I was not there nor did I know him then, I will accept their judgement. miles miles, I honestly have never been exposed to anyone who was there and knew Bush's bailing out to safety and referred to him as a hero. Can you provide a link to such a person? But the fact remains that Bush 41 was a gun grabbing, one-world-government, neocon elitist. You might want to research his family's dynasty going back to his father. Happy New Year
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You just made us all feel like President Reagan must have felt when some liberal would open his mouth and let the world know how much they were clueless about. LOL ============= He strives for it. He's trying to make the most of the short time he has left here. His sorry ass will be forgotten within a second thereafter.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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In other words the red herring of, "You weren't there so how do you know?" is a serious reasoning fallacy. Please point out where I made that statement. I believe I said that " I don't feel it necessary to praise or condemn the man when I wasn't in his shoes." Note the use of the personal pronoun "I". I then asked a series of questions to determine what weight I was going to give your opinion. We can all read historical accounts and draw valid conclusions. Yes, we can and those "valid conclusions" will often times be "wrong". A lot of folks read historical texts and think Lincoln was fighting a war to save a nation and free slaves..... George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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George,
I don't care whether you even consider my opinion. However, as a cop you might want to do your own research. That's what I did.
We will, at times, make faulty judgments. The right thing to do is admit you're wrong and figure out what went wrong in our reasoning/logic processes that lead us to the wrong answer. That's what I do. It's OK to make mistakes. It's not to repeat them.
Adios
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George,
BTW, the Civil War was fought over states' rights; to wit: whether states had the right to secede. You are right in that many Americans think it was fought over slavery. Lincoln said he'd allow the South to retain slavery if it kept the union together.
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I honestly have never been exposed to anyone who was there and knew Bush's bailing out to safety and referred to him as a hero. Can you provide a link to such a person?
I have not tried to find such a person or link but I do know that people do not put themselves in for medals. Other than John Kerry, who served in Vietnam, who also tried to make a protest point by throwing medals away that belonged to someone else. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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I honestly have never been exposed to anyone who was there and knew Bush's bailing out to safety and referred to him as a hero. Can you provide a link to such a person?
I have not tried to find such a person or link but I do know that people do not put themselves in for medals. Other than John Kerry, who served in Vietnam, who also tried to make a protest point by throwing medals away that belonged to someone else. miles I will agree. True heroes grieve over their fallen friends. Medals are immaterial to them. Audie Murphy never wore his Congressional Medal of Honor nor did he ever capitalize on it.
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George,
I don't care whether you even consider my opinion. However, as a cop you might want to do your own research. That's what I did.
We will, at times, make faulty judgments. The right thing to do is admit you're wrong and figure out what went wrong in our reasoning/logic processes that lead us to the wrong answer. That's what I do. It's OK to make mistakes. It's not to repeat them.
Adios I'm curious as to what "mistake" I have made? Is it your perception that I have erred since I disagree with your assessment that Bush is a coward? I have chosen not to judge the man as a coward or a hero as I don't see the relevance to doing so nor do I feel that I have the requisite set of facts. I fail to see how that is a "mistake" on my part. I have no problem admitting to my mistakes (in fact, my boss will tell you that I'm generally in his office warning him of an incoming complaint long before he ever gets it). In this scenario, I see nothing wrong. George, BTW, the Civil War was fought over states' rights; to wit: whether states had the right to secede. You are right in that many Americans think it was fought over slavery. Lincoln said he'd allow the South to retain slavery if it kept the union together. Thanks for the history lesson, but that's one I figured out long ago.... George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I honestly have never been exposed to anyone who was there and knew Bush's bailing out to safety and referred to him as a hero. Can you provide a link to such a person?
exactly right...you have absolutely no personal knowledge or even first hand hearsay knowledge of what you're blathering about. and I seriously doubt if you spend much time hanging around with guys who are now in their late 80s or that they'd share war stories with you in the first place. the medal citation speaks for itself, as does your ankle biting. loser.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Kahuna
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You provide a respected community service by keeping this lagina fraud off the streets,George.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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When a plane is on fire is it the pilots responsibility to get other crewmen out?
On that particular plane he couldn't even see one of them.
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Don't think in any way anyone can call him a coward! Whether he is a hero (probably no more or less) than all the others who fought in the war. Whether or not he panicked and/or caused the death of his fellow crew members, maybe he does or doesn't know himself, both could have vary easily have been unconious... and presumed dead... and he took approiate action.
How the military at the time and the public looked upon his action, well you have to take a really good look at the military of the day! Hell look at the way the military that really [bleep] up with the U.S.S Indianappolis incident made Captain Charles Butler McVay III look just to cover their colective asses!
Personally I would say that GHWB deserved everything he was awarded, and the respect that he got for just having served in that war! But wouldn't put to much faith in what the military has to say about it...
Phil
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