|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 1 |
So for you guys who choose 9mm +P and +P+, why do you choose it; what does it get you?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3 |
I only have one 9mm in the house, and I don't carry it at all. The ammunition I keep it loaded with is the ammunition my agency uses (or used) in MP5 Subguns. So, I run the +P because of "economical" reasons.
I am old enough to remember though, when it was unusual to get expansion from a jacketed hollow point out of a pistol. The only chance you had was to run them as fast as you could or make the cavity as wide as you could.
I guess part of me still hedges against those old gremlins, even if I'm only hedging in my head.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
I carry CorBon PowR'Ball or CorBon 115s..velocity is in the 1300s for 115s and 1400s for the PowR'Ball...
Why...because as the druggies say..."Speed Kills"....and .35 caliber guns need all the speed they can get. It's why I carry a .38 Super instead of a 9mm....124s at 1350 and 115s at 1450.
The standard by which all defensive rounds are judged is the 125 grain .357 Magnum at 1400+ from a 4" gun...in a .35 caliber gun that is what I want to duplicate...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 606
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 606 |
Kevin, what do you think of the plain jane remington jhp in 115 gr. My gun shoots them well, but am I underloaded?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 1 |
No Joe, you're not under-loaded.
The benefit of higher velocity rounds is barrier penetration. Back in the early days of JHP's, maximum velocity was needed to open up those bullets, but the manufactures have it all worked out and have so for nearly 20 years, yet people still feel the need for +P.
If you're a cop, then +P+ makes sens, since you're likely to need barrier penetration. For the military NATO pressure 124 grain 9mm is a much better penetrator of barriers.
But to think that it provides any additional "stopping power" in today's world is really folly. If you can eek out more than 100fps, then perhaps it can begin to make some difference, but very little I'm convinced.
I've yet to see any evidence that a +P "kills better" or "stops better", but people just think that "more is always better" but seem to draw an invisible line where defense is concerned; I don't know why.
Standard 9mm JHP's will do the job just fine. If I were a cop, I still doubt I'd use +P or +P+ in 9mm and would just switch to one of the excellent 147 grain loads to avoid the significant increase in muzzle blast, noise, recoil and general displeasure of the hot loads. Quite honestly, if I didn't feel the standard 9mm was capable of doing the job, I'd choose a bigger gun; but that's me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
I chose the +P+ Ranger because,
1) I got it for free
2) A friend has seen what it'll do to live tissue.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3 |
No Joe, you're not under-loaded.
The benefit of higher velocity rounds is barrier penetration. Back in the early days of JHP's, maximum velocity was needed to open up those bullets, but the manufactures have it all worked out and have so for nearly 20 years, yet people still feel the need for +P.
If you're a cop, then +P+ makes sens, since you're likely to need barrier penetration. For the military NATO pressure 124 grain 9mm is a much better penetrator of barriers.
But to think that it provides any additional "stopping power" in today's world is really folly. If you can eek out more than 100fps, then perhaps it can begin to make some difference, but very little I'm convinced.
I've yet to see any evidence that a +P "kills better" or "stops better", but people just think that "more is always better" but seem to draw an invisible line where defense is concerned; I don't know why.
Standard 9mm JHP's will do the job just fine. If I were a cop, I still doubt I'd use +P or +P+ in 9mm and would just switch to one of the excellent 147 grain loads to avoid the significant increase in muzzle blast, noise, recoil and general displeasure of the hot loads. Quite honestly, if I didn't feel the standard 9mm was capable of doing the job, I'd choose a bigger gun; but that's me. That works out fine IF you get to pick what you carry as far as handguns and ammunition. I haven't been overly happy with my own issued sidearm since they took my 10mm and replaced it with a glock chambered for .40 S&W. FWIW, I do agree that standard yellow and green box of 115 grain Remington JHP's are a pretty good choice for self defense use in a 9mm.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
TAK are you using RA9B or RA9T? Have you compared the two?
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234 |
I got a great deal on some +P.
If I'd gotten the same deal, I would have taken standard pressure. Speer site says 70 fps faster with the +P, but real world? Who knows?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
TAK are you using RA9B or RA9T? Have you compared the two? RA9TA, and I'm not aware of the difference between the two.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,122 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,122 Likes: 3 |
the big question is why not. you are not likely to fire a lot of them through your gun so damage to the gun is minimal to none. and if you favorite bullet comes with it then why not. the speer 124 +p load is probably the most popular 9mm load there is. speer has done a good job of matching bullet toughness to the speed generated, so with that said I see no reason not to take the extra power and speed it aint going to hurt anything. I personally carry a standard pressure 115 grain speer GD load myself. it tested well my tnoutdoors9 AND it uses a little lighter bullet which is nicer to carry all loaded up. if the load did the same thing and was +p I would carry it too, however this 115 grain bullet pushed to greater speeds actually didn't do as well as it does in standard pressure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
RA9B is the bonded version. According to what I have read the RA9T expands more.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
Here is a little youtube video of the RA9B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZMgyqWgW7M
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,443
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,443 |
This is timely as i am looking at possibly being given a 9mm as a gift. I would most likely run the 124 gr. Gold Dots at +P levels.
30-06 till i die, the greatest round ever! I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy! CEO of a Turdlike People: Turds & Tats Division... (per Ingwe  )
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
This is timely as i am looking at possibly being given a 9mm as a gift. I would most likely run the 124 gr. Gold Dots at +P levels. If I had to buy it, that's what I'd most likely go with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
So for you guys who choose 9mm +P and +P+, why do you choose it; what does it get you? RJM is spot-on IMO. I want as much velocity in a 9 as I can get. I reload the 9 pretty hot. Other calibers don't get this treatment. IMO the 9 is fine if you have plenty of velocity. Same with the 38 Spec.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1 |
So for you guys who choose 9mm +P and +P+, why do you choose it; what does it get you? +P+ 115 grain Fed HP, it prevented my mauling from a large pit bull with one shot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,040
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,040 |
I use 124gr+P Speer Gold Dots, because of reviews of how well the load works.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150 |
So for you guys who choose 9mm +P and +P+, why do you choose it; what does it get you? +P+ 115 grain Fed HP, it prevented my mauling from a large pit bull with one shot. I have to believe that a normally loaded 9mm would have done the same. A bullet does not magically arrive on target by itself. It has to have been properly aimed. "YOU" prevented the mauling, with the assistance of a firearm and bullet.
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 754
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 754 |
A 9mm is basically the same diameter (almost) as a 38 special, but goes faster... a 357 mag is the same diameter as a 9mm, but goes faster.
About 90% of the literature I have seen tells me that there is a benefit to the increase in velocity, as it relates to energy and stopping power. (I understand that I could be mistaken on this assumption, if the bullet design doesn't really perform well when you change velocity)
so, if I had to shoot 124 or 125 grain projectiles in the 9mm and "38" calibers, I would shoot:
357 mag first
9mm +p second
9mm standard velocity third
and 38 special fourth (last)
If all bullet designs of the approx same weight and size are all appropriate to the velocity of these guns, where am I going wrong here?
“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.”
--- Will Rogers
|
|
|
|
|
276 members (320090T, 10ring1, 160user, 12344mag, 06hunter59, 270cowboy, 30 invisible),
1,214
guests, and
932
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,847
Posts18,517,487
Members74,020
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
