Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Bush's gift to the Middle East

We can hope.It's pretty novel for that area,a group that does something instead of boasting about what they will do.The best course is to step back and see where it goes.

Bush's actions in Iraq is the catalyst which polarized the Muslim world in a common direction and his insistence on installing a psudo Democratic system has established their legitimacy.

In short,.. Bush's actions has strengthened and unified them,... exactly as Bin Laden had visualized.

Again,.. from the American Conservative:

Not only is Hamas now the voice of Palestinian nationalism, Hezbollah used elections to establish itself as the political power in south Lebanon. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood swept over half the parliamentary seats it was allowed to contest and appears the probable beneficiary to the political estate of President Mubarak.

In the Iraqi elections, Shia militants wiped up the floor with secularists like ex-Prime Minister Iyad Allawi and Ahmed Chalabi. In Iran, the dark horse who stormed to victory in the 2005 elections is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose commentaries on the Holocaust and wiping Israel "off the map" have even the Ayatollah nervous. In the two provinces of Pakistan that border Afghanistan, pro-Taliban fundamentalists swept the boards in recent elections.

Here's some more very informative commentary on how the situation in the Middle East has developed into what could be referred to as a worst case scenario.

I won't post any excerpts, but if you're the inquisitive type, you'll find it very interesting.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/engelhardt/engelhardt158.html

Alright, I bite.

So, Bristoe, what is it that ought to be done in the Middle East? We can't fight them there, 'cause Bush is doing that and that's wrong, then again, we can't let terrorists come here, 'cause if Bush did that, he would have failed. So, what option am I missing?

Oh, and, we can't let them live under dictatorships and brutal regimes, that's been a policy for decades, but we can't let them have democracy either, 'cause they'll elect groups that Bush gets blamed for putting into power (that calculus still escapes me...). So, how do we allow them to govern themselves, since we obviously can't govern them (that would be an empire, right)?

Enlighten me...

The Ignore setting is such a good thing.

VA, don't hold your breath. It's always easier to bitch and fault-find when you're dealing with a bad situation than to pick a strategy and stick to it, regardless of a hostile press and a defeatist opposition.

And as to Bush "unifying" the opposition, they were pretty damn unified through the dozen or so prior terrorist attacks on US interests; all Bush has added is to send ten thousand or so to unity with Allah, blessed be his peaceful name.

Yeah, but I'm a stubborn SOB...

you actually would like Bristoe to formulate a solution??????? But then he could'nt piss and moan about the outcome!!!! It might even ruin his day????

lol,... here they come!

A clear presentation of exactly how inept the foreign policy ragarding the Middle East has been,.. and it's "attack the messenger!".

I have no answers at this time. But I think that it's important for all of us to continually monitor the ineptitude of the Bush administration so perhaps future generation will recognize the signs the next time a would be emperor with delusions of granduer comes along.

But if you want me to present something positive about our current troubles, I guess I could say;

Bush set out to alter the course of Middle Eastern history,..

Well, by DAMN!,... he sho 'nuff has achieved THAT!

Nope, I'm waiting for a "this is how it ought to be done" solution.

Take your time and get back to me when you come up with something that will make me go "wow... yeah, that IS how it ought to have been done! Why didn't we think of that before?"

Like I said, take your time.

Bristoe--when you said, smirkingly:

Bush set out to alter the course of Middle Eastern history,..

Well, by DAMN!,... he sho 'nuff has achieved THAT!

You were accidentally right, for once.

Let's see:

1) terrorist state, worst oppressor of women on the planet, wiped out, functioning democrcy in place in Afghanistan.

2)mass murderer, WMD user, torturer, war monger (no, Bristoe, not Bushitler, Saddam) put out of business. Constitution adopted and a messy march to democracy begun.

Total humans freed from despots in (1) and (2):56 million.

3) Syria pulls out of Lebanon.

4) Libya voluntarily goes out of the WMD business.

5) Saudi Arabia cracks down on terroists in the kingdom.

6) Egypt schedules free (very free by Arab standards) elections.

Yeah, the middle east looks quite a bit different than it did when slick left office.

Let's give Bristoe the benefit of the doubt and time to come up with the stroke of genius that I'm sure he's going to craft.

Take your time, Bristoe, take your time...

WAHHH! I have a hangnail. It is Bushes fault! He is wicked for allowing hangnails and should be put in prison! Everything is his fault! We need laws against hangnails! OUCH!! It hurts so bad and it is not my fault! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I'm laughin' so hard I'm cryin'...

Really...? Why I never would have thought such a thing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm thinking you'll be waiting a while for that response..................maybe a real long while.

Another case of quick to point the finger, but not offering anything better. Reminds me of the democraps in congress; they spend all their airtime on saying what they wouldn't do or have done, rather than saying what needs to be done instead.

What is needed is what the panty-wetters can't handle.........A nice fat Mushroom Cloud. Make all that sand into a nice glass valley.

It is a little sad that many innocent would have to pay, but that is War.


Hats off to all you guys putting your life on the line everyday, so that we can sit here in the comforts of our homes and offices and discuss "our solutions" to these problems. While the media would have you guys thinking that you're failing, we know better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

The radical extremists in the Middle East are not fighting the US - rather they are still fighting the Crusaders of the 10th century. We are just the current iteration of the Crusaders. Yes, we are kicking the crap out of the extremists that show their faces, but these fanatics are like an iceberg; 10% is visible above the water, while the 90% is not visible (remember the Titanic? the part of the iceberg below the waterline did her in).

And unlike an iceberg, which melts and gradually disappears, these fanatics just keep feeding the 90% that is not visible. I question how long (measured in decades or longer) the US will be willing to have casualties in Iraq in the name of supporting democracy. The fundamentalists in Iran have won elections and Hamas has won the recent Palestinian election. Oh yes, when will we attack North Korea to remove their weapons. North Korea certainly poses at least as great a threat as Iran.

Welocme home Blaine.

You guys want a reasonable alternative to the current middle east policy? How about this:

Bring our soldiers home. Let the middle east fix whatever needs fixing. Lets take the next 250 billion that we would have spent over there and devote it to alternate energy sources....biodiesel, Alberta Tar Sands, hybrids, nuclear, etc. Wean the American economy off the Middle East tit. Then if they want to kill each other, sell them the guns. Take the money we would be giving Palastine and beef up our southern borders. Use those chips they are using on cattle and clothes, and have visitors wear them.....embed them under the skin...we can track them via satelite....and if they don't have jobs or show up for class or if they try to work illegally, if they disappear into the underground, deport them.

Work WITH Mexico and Venezuela so we have good supplies of oil short term, but lets put on our thinking hats, and develop some viable alternatives. Idi Amin was as bad as Saddam, and we didn't have to do a damn thing to get him out of there......we sure as hell didn't have to spend 2200 American lives and hundreds of billions to do it.

Goodpasture, that is an imminently sensible solution. I would only add one thing: A promise to nuke Mecca if there were any significant Islamic terrorist events on our soil. Give them a reason to police their own. Probably a needless threat as that us getting out of the region would probably deflate the motivation behind most would-be terrorists. Sending U.S. troops into that cesspool was about the dumbest thing possible.