Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Black Powder Elk Load?

In the not to distant future I'm planning on a muzzleloader elk hunt in Colorado. I shoot an Encore and an Omega now. What bullet do you suggest that will comply with Colorado regs and perform well in my rifles?

Powerbelts are the goto muzzle loader bullet here in Colorado.
My .50 like the .338 grain platinum PB's over 100gr of 777.

Forgot to mention my rifles at .50 cal

My T/C rifles shoot the 348 grain PB with 80-90 grains BH209 very well.

I use 295 gr Powerbelts, Aerotipped and 100grains of FFG black powder or 777. Never saw the need for the heavy weights in the PB.The 295's have killed elk for me fine. For those that say the PB's come apart, here is one I dug out of an elk under the hide on the far side last year with that load. Shot was about 80yards, maybe less.Retained weight was 295 gr. 100%, minus the skirt and tip.

If soemeone stuffs 150 gr of powder behind them they might come aprt. I don't see the need to do that either.

Colorado got rid of the 2x caliber for length rule. I plan on using flat nose conicals and 80 to 100 grains of powder from here on out. Shot a bear with a 410 grain conical and 85 grains of powder last fall, worked quite well. Previously the 370 maxiball did very good on elk for me. Also have some 460 grain flat nose bullets to try as well. Good luck on your hunt.

Never hunted elk with a muzzleloader, that said if I ever do and the states law allows inlines I will be loading 300 grain barnes expanders in front of 150 grains of pyrodex.

If the states don't allow it I would use my T/C Greyhawk with 100 grains of pyrodex and 300 grain Thor bullets at (.502")

Either way I'm good.

Slightly larger, but in 54 I run 565 grain no excuses. 100 of DuPont 2F. Shoots really well out to 200 yards with irons. And should pack a punch if I ever find and elk to shoot at.

I like the no excuses bullets. And would use em in smaller calibers too.

.54 Caliber 310 Grain Buffalo Ball-ets

I used T/C maxi bullets. I got the mold & poured them myself. My buddy uses a T/C Hawken with 100 grain of FF. I use a 54 T/C Renagrad with 120 grains of FF.

90 grains of Pyrodex under a 295 Powerbelt green, did fine on my only cow with my Encore PH barrel.
It also shoots 100 grains with the 348 Powerbelt well.
My first shot was high, it was my first elk, shattered the spine and she couldn't move. Snuck in to 15 yds and put one more in her, instant death.

ditto last post
295 grain powerbelts, 90 grain pyrodex, in a .50 cal Encore

That's too bad, but being the case, then I would opt for a .45 caliber rifle with an 18" twist and use 475-550 lead bullets for a rifle capable out to 300 yds. There are not many such rifles made commercially that I know of, but it is i not too hard to build one actually. Pedersoli Gibbs is the best of the mass-produced rifles. and then after that it becomes custom, or at least semicustom.

They didn't get rid of the 50 caliber requirement though. Funny that in their world a 45 cal heavy just isn't enough right.

Well, that's better. Of course a .45 is better for what I have in mind, but the .50 min requirement will pull in the max range a bit and slow folks down. It's not a lethality issue that should keep the .45s out, its all about distance. But whatever works.

I use 370 grain Maxi-balls on top of 120 grains/eq of Pyrodex select. Runs about 1600/1700fps out of my Knight Revolution rifle.

I would use my 58cal bigbore with a roundball big smack

The only two elk I have killed with a muzzle loader were shot with a Maxi-ball, and Maxi - hunter, 100 grains of FF, using a traditional MZ, with a peep sight.

i use the 348gr powerbelt with 100grs of powder in my 50 cal ml.

killed several elk with that combo, and have been well satisfied.

250Gr Thor through both shoulders

Buddies Powebelt Double Lung

Ill take the thors 100-1 over the power belts.

We still have to use full bore conicals. No sabots.

A Thor is a full bore bullet.
Here's a Link

Ok I was thinking they were a sabot. Thanks Tom.

My Wife still uses .54 round balls that she pours herself. Can't seem to get it in her head that she needs a bigger and badder bullet. Course she also has killed a pile of elk with her Browning BLR .243. Stubborn woman.

I'll use the maxi-ball 370gr, or Hornady Great Plains 385gr next year.

I'm still testing to see which one shoots best.

Worked for me also, although I only have taken two with round balls. Took a couple more with T/C maxiballs (poured myself). However, if one wanted the "best", most efficient, longest range, etc, I think a very strong inline would be a great choice. There are some amazing, heavy, long-range bullets out there.

Just for the record, here's how Idaho's BP regulations read. This is for ML only hunts. You can use about any kind of BP rifle in an any weapon hunt. In-lines aren't prohibited but they are limited to percussion caps on a nipple that can be seen when it's cocked. Are there any of those out there?

Muzzleloader-Only Season
Any person hunting in a muzzleloader-only season, including
controlled hunts, must have in their possession a license with
a muzzleloader permit validation. During a muzzleloader-only
season, it is illegal to pursue or kill a big game animal with
any firearm, muzzleloading pistol, or weapon other than a
muzzleloading rifle or musket. In addition, the muzzleloading
rifle or musket must be:
�
Capable of being loaded only from the muzzle.
�
Equipped with only open or peep sights. Scopes and any
electronics are prohibited.
Except hunters with a visual disability may apply for a permit to use nonmagnifying scopes. (Applications are available at Fish and Game offices.)
�
Loaded only with loose black powder, loose Pyrodex, or other loose synthetic black powder. Pelletized powders are
prohibited.
�
Equipped with a single or double-barrel.
�
Loaded with a projectile that is within .010 inch of the bore
diameter. Sabots are prohibited.
�
Loaded with a patched round ball or conical non-jacketed
projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy.
�
Equipped only with a flint, percussion cap or musket cap.
209 primers are prohibited.
�
Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of
the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked
and ready to fire

Sounds like a traditional long or midrange percussion rifle built around a fast twist .45 barrel shooting 450-550 gr paper patched bullets would be ideal.

Here is one that gets used for micro-elk. Careful, she's ugly and could hurt your eyes.

Thanks. Was not aware of those apparent changes. Good rules. I actually bought a .54 Kodiak double for elk hunting some years ago, then found out I could only use a single barrel in Co.(I'm pretty darned sure it used to be true.) I carried my Brown Bess (75 cal smoothbore flintlock) last year and passed on several opportunities, then decided I was all done with elk hunting because I really didn't want another one, so didn't shoot. Maybe I'll have to go one (?) more time just to bloody the Kodiak.

I use my inline (scoped) only during "regular" firearms seasons. It is far too capable for muzzleloader seasons. Almost unfair.

About Idaho - I should add that you need a 45 cal for deer and a 50 for anything bigger.

Oh hell! I thought you were writing about Colorado. I should pay attention to what I'm reading. So Nevermind; The damn Kodiak will just have to stay in the safe!

That .50 min for elk is probably a good thing. But a .45 with an 18-twist barrel and 450+ grs of lead is a better elk rifle every time.

THAT is a beautiful rifle, Brent! Details?

Ed

Ed, you seriously need to get your eyes checked. That thing hurts to look at so much that I rarely hunt it. But for a muzzleloader it reaches are far as any rifle there is.

It is a Blue Grouse underhammer action (basically a Hopkins and Allen type of action but with a screwed on barrel. All out of 4140 steel. The barrel is a Badger 18-twist .45, profiled as if it was going on a standard weight Shiloh Sharps. It shoots 100 grs of Swiss 1.5 fg and 475 gr bullets, paper patched here. Bullets up to 550 grs are fairly standard for the barrel so heavier is available.

It has 4 sets of sights, barrel sight (100 yds) "tang" sight (200 yds), and then tapped for eternally adjustable scopes like a Lyman STS 25x that I use for target shooting out to 200 yds and it has a fourth receiver sight that uses a different style of vernier for ranges out to 1000, which I never really care to shoot with this rifle. Platinum lined nipple is required for these rifles.

I stocked it (no one to blame but me). And also did the bluing and wood finish. One day, I'll restock it.

As it lays here, it is basically a .45-100 Sharps in muzzleloading form w/o the brass. It will kill an elk as far as you are a good enough rifleman to make a decent shot.

You could build one in .50 cal but for a good longer range bullet, the recoil would be pretty brutal. The .45 is about perfect.

i've used the 348gr powerbelt out of two different 50cal rifles, with equal success on colorado elk. 90-100grs of powder was most accurate in my rifles.

That is less than impressive.

Now those look cool. Anyone else have any experience with them?

Last bull I saw shot with a Muzzy soaked up the lead. They were the "No Excuses" bullets. I was not very impressed with those either.

There is not a tougher or better terminal ballistic bullet out there than the Thor (pure copper hollowpoint)

That said, if you hit any elk with a 50 cal 460 gr no excuse bullet in a vital area, he is not going very far. Great bullet too.

460 gr No Excuse bullet and 110 grs 777, and a peep sight mounted on your rifle.

Gunner

My TC Omega won't shoot any of the Thors, but that silver PB with 90-100 of BH 209 shoots a tight group at 200 yds.

The reason 45 cal. Is not allowed in Co. I think, is because of the guides cussing and raising hell over all the wasted elk they find that was lost with a 50 cal. Round ball. Yes, a long heavy 45 would be much better but but most would probably use a round ball.

What's not impressive. I dug one out that was identical to the one shown last year from a dead elk. She went about 50 yards before falling over. The PB was under the hide on the far side. You put a 1/2" hole, thru both lungs of an elk that isn't too far back and they die pretty quick.It doesn't make too much difference what that 1/2 " diameter bullet is made of.
I don't get it, hunters load a PB with 150 grains of powder and the complain that it blows apart when it is designed for a slower velocity. Then when it works as it is suppose to they say it is unimpressive. The same rules apply for selecting a ML bullet as it does for a center fire rifle bullet. You pick one designed to work on the game you intend to use it for and the drive it at the velocities it was designed.

I've killed elk with round lead balls, lead maxi-balls and Power Belts. I haven't seen any difference in the killing ability of any of them. It ain't rocket science, but I guess there is a group of hunters out there that continually look for an all encompassing bullet that will work 100% of the time if they screw up.

All the powerbelts I've recovered from elk have been just under the off-side hide but flat as a pancake, are those that you guys have that aren't expanded new ones or something?

What I find funny is these clowns that use pb's and they show pics like the above where it is hardly dented and then you got the other camp that says theirs blows up to tiny fragments.....so I ask myself why do these guys keep using these junky bullets that are so inconsistent?
You either have to load em to a snails pace to perform and then complain when they don't expand or jet em out at high speed and watch em blow up!!!
I don't understand that mentality....just use a freakin bullet that is consistant or at least much much more consistant like a barnes....good grief you can load them fast slow it don't matter they perform.
As far as I'm concerned they can take pb's and use em for paper only.
Biggest pieces of junk ever invented, and before you guys try to give me grief over them....I know of several people first hand that used (yeah...USED) them and no longer do.
Fortunally for me I was smart from the get to and started out with the best = barnes.

What I find funny are the clowns that used 2-3 times the cost of regular bullets for Barnes when a good lead bullet will do the job. Then if that don't work they still blame the bullet instead of the nut on the trigger. Probably the same with those that USE to use PB's. Just wonder how many elk these guys have killed. Definitely those guys have more money than brains.

What's wrong with cutting a 1/2 "hole thru and animal. Almost every center fire rifle does the same thing from a .243 to 45 caliber.

Give me any 50 caliber muzzle loader bullet on the market and I can go kill elk with it and you won't hear me whinning about losing an elk because the bullet isn't up to the task.

Fortunately for me ,I was smart enough to sift out the marketing hype and not waste my money. Of course the reply will be the cost of the bullet is the smallest part of the hunt. What BS that is.

I�m thinking it was not impressive because even a round ball expands and mushrooms better than that thing looks like it did.

Personally, I've never had a problem with a PB on elk or deer, so I'll keep using 'em.

But what I find funny are the clowns that suggest a Barnes bullet as "the answer," because you can't use 'em without a sabot, and not everyone can legally use sabots.

Uh.......

Laffin'

Oh and I just did a little research and found that pb's and barnes MZ's are roughly the same price +\- a few dollars so you can throw the cost effective argument out the window too.

Laffin'

+/- a few dollars per what? Bullet?

Cast some lead bullets and be done with it. They've worked for hundreds of years. Why change now?

Well, if you meant Thor's, why didn't you say so?

I'm laffin too. But what I'm laffin at is a guy who thinks "first-hand" is knowing of someobody who told him about something. I've shot 6 or 8 elk with powerbelts, and none got away. That's "first-hand."

I don't know beans about muzzyloading but I do know this is a lot deadlier looking than that green tipped thingy. In fact that green tipped thingy looks like a field point for an arrow.

Anyone ever shoot a elk with a Thor?

No per 50...

Thor bullets are barnes.......

Not bad, if you don't shoot much. But if you do, that's a huge increase. Most guys that shoot a lot and are serious shooters make their own.

Funny, millions of bison were killed with pure lead bullets mostly cast over a campfire.2000 lbs. or so vs a 500 lb elk. Gosh these elk must be getting tough. Like Smokepole, my experience is 1st hand.

I'm not trying to shoot a bison. I'm trying to shoot an elk.

If you say "Barnes muzzleloader bullet" that includes several different saboted bullets that are not Thors. So if you're talking about Thors, just say so.

Just got what I hope will be my bullet for elk this year: Bullshop. 100 bullets $34 delivered. 460 gr of lead. Will be trying them shortly.

That said, PBs may work for lots, power to them, but there are better/cheaper bullets. The Hornady FPB has taken down 3 elk so far in 4 years for me. Is a lead alloy so holds together better than the PBs when pushed but has a tipped hollowpoint for good expansion up front. AND they are cheaper than Powerbelts.

But as much as I like to shoot, if the bullshops shoot well for me, they should be good elk medicine and be significantly cheaper. Probably use them with 777 at 80-90 gr.

I use a J.P. Murray carbine- load is 580 grain home-cast minie bullet over 74 grains of FFG. Recoil gets your attention but it makes a big hole and I have never had an elk travel further than 100 yards after impact. Then again I don't take a shot unless I am cloise - as in under 100 yards - and fifty is better.

Terry

What twist and make barrel are you shooting them in? And exactly the powder range I ran last year with a 410 Hornady. Tough to find something that can stop that load.

I'll tell what I saw one time that I have tried to figure out for years. The first big bull I killed was in Co. Shot it with a great gun- 270 why mag- Japan, 24 in light barrel, with Federal cartridge with bear claw bullet.

He was a big 5x5 with 15 or so cows east and up high from Vallecita (sp) lake a few miles.

He had a big broad head buried in the spine at the lumbar/tenderloin level that was totally healed. There was an open hole in his side just behind the back edge of the shoulder and about 8-9 in. above the bottom of the chest. It was barely draining a little pus and was almost healed with a dark cartilege like fibrous material that encompassed a big 54 cal. lead hollow base ML slug that had mostly flattened and stopped at the rib. I have in my mind that it was also a HP, but can't remember for sure.

Was the hunter far away and held high for a perfect hit or what happened to keep the bullet from going through the heart.

I wonder if the guy who shot him the year before knows he made a perfect shot, except for centering a rib.

No telling. The bullet could have passed through another elk and hit yours. It's hard to believe a 400-500 grain bullet would be stopped by a rib at any respectable distance.

Yea, a real weird deal for sure.