Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa SCI a white hunter only organization?

Bushcraft,

Excellent, Simply Excellent!

As an financially average guy at best, In my lifetime I would never manage to donate the amount of one of the "elite" in a single check they write as if it's a dinner check.

I've seen donations and auctions collect money that can only be imagined! This money is not then used for elite dinners for the tux and limo crowd. But rather to fight a battle over seasons or regulations in all 50 states and many places around the world.

We would not have had the influx of improved genetics for the big horn sheep in Oregon and Washington's Blue Mountains, or the rockies in Idaho. SCI bought and paid for the entire capture and release of these Alberta Bighorns. They have been almost solely responsible for some of the introduction of wild turkeys in the western USA. over the years. We may not see this Elite sportsman status as the average union worker, camo wearing deer hunter with a pickup, horse or an ATV. But lets extract the money and regulation changes they have taken care of and see where we would be today.

I'll gladly and proudly be an SCI member and let the elite act or compete, or live the lives that make them happy to be "one of us" every chance I get. I want them to save hunting for me and everyone like me!

Hey Bushy, I know what I saw, and was hugely unimpressed with a bunch of chest pumping egomaniacs. You must have missed the part of my post where I said that I'm sure they do some good things, and I am. If you don't like my comments from the "peanut gallery", you can stick it up your azz.

My experiences with SCI are similar to yours. A large percentage of the members I've been around were really big A-holes. The kind of guys who carried tape measures around in their pockets, and spent a great deal of time bragging about many inches of antler they had killed. Turned me off to the entire outfit. I realize the organization does good things for conservation; I just can't get past some of the guys in it.

Bushcraft,
First, thanks for all your effort at SCI. I was on ther BOD of the Phoenix chapter for 11 years, I finally had to pull the plug due to the organizations inability to listen. There were many, many reasons that got me to leave both the PHX Chapter and National but they all had to do with "sickening chronyism". What I saw was nothing short of elitism, based on ones "percieved" financial condition. Our sitting President was actually run out of office by an SCI executive wannabee, helped out by a current SCI national employee, I would name names but WTF . 100 percent of the chapter left, including FIVE PAST PRESIDENTS. We all called our rep and KR both. It fell on deaf ears. They obviously have the people that they want now.(both local and nationally)

I'd rather give my money to CF. I only re-signed up a month ago so I could go to the show to see some of my taxidermy on display.

SCI "used" have my heart and soul, it has simply lost its way and I think the Reno attendance proves that. Hunting should not ever be a contest, tuxedo's and brass bands.

Sorry,

Just how I feel and obviously many, many more. My booking agent said he lost money for the very first time.

Steve

From my limited exposure, I prefer DSC over SCI. Folks at DSC don't come across as pretentious as those in SCI. Of course, my perception could be wrong as I don't attend either the awards nor banquets.

JGRaider,

I understand what you said you thought you saw..three years ago. Regardless of hunting organization, you are always, always, always going to run into the occasional overbearing tape measure toting a-hole. As with any organization, leadership changes and evolves over time. And it has. Knowing some members of the executive board personally, I can tell you that there are some exceptionally impressive individuals working very hard to push SCI and SCIF in a better overall direction. And, you are welcome to get involved with them at the local, regional and national levels, and strive to make changes and work hard to protect all our hunting rights. If that�s not your cup of tea, fine. Feel free to sit back and relax in the peanut gallery and put up another TEN THOUAND posts while the rest of us put our valuable time, energy and money where our mouths are when it comes to fighting the anti-hunters for YOUR right to hunt. Just sayin�.

Chipolopolo,

Thank you for all your involvement with SCI. I�d strongly urge you to reconsider getting involved again. I can assure you that things are changing for the better in the hierarchy. Having come up through the ranks, albeit faster than some since I was dumb enough to raise my hand to volunteer too many times, I fully appreciate your frustration with the cronyism and political gamesmanship that can occur at both the chapter and national levels. It�s worth pointing out that SCI is certainly not alone in that regard. Remember that the day-to-day decision making is done by the executive board (and now the executive director), but you've got to remember that they are all individually voted into those positions by the "Big Board" which is made up of hundreds of current and past presidents. There's nothing to stop you and some of your like-minded friends from starting your own chapter, once again have a say in the matter and help fight the good fight. Every little bit helps and it all adds up to a whole lot of political influence! If you�d like some more information, feel free to PM me.

All the best,

Allen

Bushcraft,
I harbor no animosity towards SCI, life's too short for that. Several of us looked into a new chapter. They had just recently set one up here, a bunch of Lawyers that really wanted their own private chapter.

The unique problem in AZ is the amount of competing outdoor conservation organizations. SCI being the only non species specific, hunters advocacy group is what drew me in. We always had to compete for attendance at our fundraisers with; Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, RMEF, AZ Elk Society, AZ Deer Assn. Mule Deer Foundation, DU, AZ Antelope Foundation and I'm probably left one or two out.

Point being another SCI chapter would be nuts. I actually contacted DSC and tried to lobby them to start a chapter outside of Dallas philosophy.

I really enjoyed my time in the organization, things change, people change. Maybe there will be a change in direction or philosophy and It will feel right again.

The Phoenix chapter was one of the very first back in the old days, Mark Sullivan for all the [bleep] talk about him was one of the first Chapter Presidents, one of the first big donors. His hunting style was never in doubt and he never tried to hide it, He was thrown out like yesterdays trash with no explination offered but Dawie Grooenvelt was kept around well past his expiration date?
BS............Chronyism.

Time to take out the trash in Tucson

Wow Bushy. I had no idea I should be so indebted to you. You're probably one of the lardazz, stuff shirt, blowhards I ran into in Reno. Thanks for telling me what I thought I saw. Clowns like you remind me why I feel like I do about SCI.

JGRaider,

Wow! You are one impressive guy! Not only do you have me pegged to a "T", you are totally awesome at winning friends and influencing people...Not.

Hint: Reading is fundamental. I did not tell you what you thought you saw, but I'd bet good money you'll go on believing otherwise, even if it's dead wrong.

Listen, the fight isn't against me and those of us that are trying to protect our gun rights and our hunting rights, it's against those that are trying to strip them away from us.

Allen

Chipolopolo,

I totally hear you on the number of competing organizations. We've got the same thing going on up here. Fortunately, there tends to be a lot of overlap in membership and a lot of passionate supporters of our hunting rights and critter conservation.

Hopefully, SCI is on the road to putting the whole unproductive ego-maniacal hamster wheel thing behind them and working on getting the science-based, sustainable use hunting message out to ALL of the hunting community. But we need good people to help do it.

All the best,

Allen

Bushcraft,
I hope I don't come across as negative as some. It does sound to me like you are honest enough with your self to at least identify that there are issues.

I used to do the ISE show every year here in PHX, we did a membership drive booth. I would tell everyone that if you are a member of the NRA than you absolutely need to support SCI, what good are your gun rights if there is no hunting.

I'm hoping that someday I can come back with a clean conscience and continue to work on education, conservation and humanitarian projects. My favorite was the Navajo Nation youth hunt. We donated money every year to the Navajo Nation, they would take young kids, both boys and girls that didn't have a hunting mentor, be it father, uncle, grandfather to take them and to teach and carry on the rich hunting heritage of the Navajo Nation. A very worthy cause.

I made many, many friends on this project. The directors of the Navajo Game department and I were on a first name basis. As a matter of fact, I personally got the first navajo sheep auction tag for SCI to auction off at Reno, I think it was 2009 or 2010.

Regards,

Steve

Go to the accurate reloading Africa forums and do more research. You'll find there's way more people who feel like I do about SCI than the way you think. The post about all the liars, crooks and thieves SCI endorses would be a good place for you to start.

Thinking about this, I've never seen a black guy hunting at all. I'm sure many do, just not where I've been. I also don't recall any black people at any rifle range, trap and skeet range I've been to. never gave a though to it till I read this. Let it go, they do as they will!

Very interesting...Perhaps you can enlighten all of us on how a handful of largely anonymous people on an internet message board forum is waaaaaaaaaay more than the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that are SCI members and/or appreciate what SCI does to protect all of our hunting rights.

(psst...good luck with that)

Do you personally know any of the current SCI leadership? (I do.) Ever spent any time with them in D.C. lobbying our legislators? (I have.) Ever spent time getting to know them in the field or under the roofs of their homes? (I have.) Ever had them in your home? (I have.)

No? Oh, thaaaat's right....you've merely formed an opinion of the world's foremost hunting rights and conservation organization based on the opinions of some anonymous internet posters that you probably don't know that were referring to people that they probably don't know who are no longer part of SCI's current leadership.

It reminds me of the uninformed opinion you had about hunting in Africa and the people that like to hunt there.

Just sayin.

I support (with life memberships) both SCI and DSC. I support neither because of social reasons, but rather, because both are active and reasonably effective in promoting and lobbying for the sports and traditions I love. I suppose I am also not particularly offended by the people characterized here as blow-hards who have more money than I have. However, I would suggest that the arrogant class makes up a lot smaller percentage of these two organizations than many others to which I have had exposure in other fields.

In a previous life, as a Major General, I was responsible for defending Army programs on Capitol Hill. For an airborne ranger combat arms officer it was an informative couple of years of how things get done. By that standard, SCI in particular, has been a reasoned and effective voice supporting hunting both in the US and internationally. To accomplish that mission it needs like minded sportsman who are willing to put dollars in play. To the club's credit, it has been pretty effective in finding innovative ways to do that which work to the members' benefit (i.e. donnations). The only other organization making a similar impact where it counts for hunters is Ducks Unlimited. And I have deliberately left out the NRA in which I am also a life member.

With respect to African Americans in our sport, I suspect a host of cultural, historical and economic forces are at play. Hunting is no longer a subsistance activity and is fast evolving into an ever more privileged one. Those with that sort of disposable income, unfortunately, are not altogether refective of the general population. We do have active African American shooters in the Prince George's county trap league.

But with regard to supporting one or more of our sporting organizations, I would urge you to consider doing so for the good the organization does rather than impression some individual or group leaves with you. I suspect if enough of us did so, finding like minded members rather than offensive ones would not be difficult.

Steve,

Great job on the Navajo project!

You sound EXACTLY like the type of person SCI is looking for to help protect our hunting rights and promote science-based, sustainable use wildlife conservation and humanitarian projects, both nationally and internationally.

All the best,

Allen

Redleg,

That was exceptionally well stated. Thank you!

Allen

It's worth Mentioning again. Our hunting rights, and the peek behind the wizards curtain with educated wildlife managers hired by SCI to see what the states are really doing as well as foreign governments are doing is expensive.

Without legal professional representaion on these kinds of issues, we lose. Here is a real world example of this in Wa. State from about a decade ago:

The State proposed a ban on Hunting bears with hounds and Bait. They were pushed into this by lobbyists from various animal rights groups that pounded the airwaves with commercials to show how horrible this was, and that the black bear was nearly extinct in Wa. now. This took a lot of money from the anti hunters.

The Dept. of Fish and Game in court fought this battle with the limited funds and poor representation of the facts. When the Judge asked F&W
well how many bears are there in Wa. state? Are they endangered? can you show me proof that there are enough to sustain a harvestable surplus? The state F&W lawyers just said we have a strong and growing population that is stable. Again the Judge said "HOW MANY" and how many does it take to be sustainable, how many can be harvested? what are the facts? F&W had nothing to show for this newer then 20 year old flawed research.

The Judge ruled, you show me the population is stable, I will allow a hunting season. Otherwise I have to stop the bear hunting until we know that its not going to harm the population. Wa. F&W had no funds for this, yet outside of Alaska,... Wa. state has the highest bear population in America. So the season was going to be closed.

SCI came in and funded along with the WFPA, several tree farms, and sportsmans organizations to quickly get a study underway. I was a regional manager in this study for the central cascades. In that spring population study which was not funded by the F&W division, but rather private organizations primarily SCI and WFPA ( washington forest protection association) we went before the Judge and never missed the season opening day!

From this story the real take away is obvious. The team with the most money wins 99% of the time. If you think your license and tags pay your fair share, think again. Once your license and tag fees end up in the general fund of your state( which is most if not all now) that management money is long gone for helping to protect your rights.

With SCI lawyers, biologists, and representation that Judge had no option but to believe the professionally done population study. The Antis best was advertising with news paper and commercials on TV, they had no science, why would they? it would have proven us right!

It stuns me that providing the help to the biggest possible organization that will protect us and let us enjoy our passion would be ridiculed. It also opened my eyes to a much bigger issue.

In my whole life of being a member and making donations, I will never contribute as much as one wealthy guy that buys an auction hunt, art work, or just that person writing a check at a meeting. Remember this is very simple, the one with the most money wins. How do you ridicule the elite among us when they are the ones saving this for us all?

What did I say?

Bushcraft, your posts aren't exactly helping your cause. They are making you sound like an arrogant prick. Think I'll take my money elsewhere.