Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR recoil and other queries

A few things I have been thinking on-

Recoil - With target bullets getting heavier in a given caliber now ie: 455gr .40cal I am interested to know how recoil compares. If you have 2 rifles of similar design and weight, both shooting for example a 450gr bullet in front of a similar charge of BP, but one is a .40cal bullet and the other a .45. The overall bullet length will be different, however will recoil be similar?

There are vegetable wads, synthetic/plastic wads and card wads. Are there preferences as to which performs the best?

The rifle I am building now is a 40-82 Crossno with a 1 in 16" twist #4 Green Mountain Barrel. I plan to fit a scope and am leaning to a 30" barrel... I had read reference to larger cases not burning all the powder completely in a 30" barrel [I understand the increased iron sight radius of a 34" barrel]. However many of the original plains rifles were 30" so I figure it is good?

I see a lot of reference to various Globe sights. But little on the Beach combination front sight. There was a little mentioned in BPC News in an article by Bob Glodt. Anyone using these front sights?

cheers,

Cam...

Cam,

The subject of recoil, recoil is subjective. I don't consider myself to be recoil sensitive and that's not to say I want a steady diet of recoil from a 50-90 with a 100 grains of BP and a 700 grain bullet, been there.

What I do feel that's counter productive is excess recoil when it's just not needed. Lest say a guy shoots a 45-90 for Silhouette with a stout load and heavy bullet. At the end of a match he's scored a 29 or 30,and some times not even those scores, but no chickens and just places OK for the match, and I know a shooter who does just that. What he feels is that the more velocity the better. Now on the other end of the scale, a 45-70 shooter wants just enough velocity to knock down the target with as little recoil as possable. Now this fellow shots 30-33 most matches, that's with 3-5 chickens. Not much difference you think, not so, at the end of a two-three day match the 45-90 shooter isn't doing all that well, while the 45-70 lower recoil shooter is still ready to shoot and either has won or close to have the match/matches.So why get beat up.

The 45 will have more recoil then the 40 that's a given.

If that 40-82 was mine I'd shoot the litest bullet, say 400-420 grain and normal load of B.P..Or up the bullets weight and lower the powder charge. Use the bullet weight/powder combo that's the most accurate, regardless of recoil.

I like the LDPE wads and depending on what rifle I'm shooting a .030 to .060 thick wad.

I don't think any B.P. caliber rifle burns all the powder in the barrel, look at some of the pictures that have been taken and the muzzle flash is tremendous. So for barrel length my preference is 32"

I know of the beach front sight, except I've never used one, so can't comment.

Kelley O.

Thanks Kelley,

Well explained...

I am not recoil sensitive myself, tho I prefer not to be bashed about. I read of some guys using the .45-90's and a few with the .45-100 for Silhouette. Having never shot or seen a Silhouette match I imagine they are a lot of gun for the task, especially over a day or twos shooting!

I sort of wondered about the recoil similarities or lack of between 2 same bullet weights in 2 different calibers as I see people shooting smaller calibers with the bullet weights climbing and climbing. I figured if you are going to shoot a 455gr .40, you would be on the same grounds as the lighter .45s, losing the perks of the smaller cal. But wasn`t sure...

With my rifle, I am considering 400- 420gr bullets. The action is a tangless Browning Low wall. The idea is to keep a scope on it. I have a Parsons 6x organised.. However I have been thinking while the action is in pieces, I could have a tang fitted to take a tang sight and fit a Beach site to the front. Is not a competition rig, just for my fun on the ranch and maybe to shoot a pig or two and definitely som varmints...

Chuck told me once he liked the 32" barrel too for BPC competition. Excuse my lack of knowledge - What/who are LDPE Wads?

Thanks again kelley, much appreciated and good to hear from you again.

cheers,

Cam...

Cam,

LDPE, "Low Density Polyethylene" or poly wads.

Kelley O.

Cam,
That is; coffee can lids if you don't have access to another supply.
KO has it about right IMHO regarding recoil. It seems to me that the biggest mitigating factor is rifle weight. Yesterday I was shooting a used, recently aquired .45-90 Pedersoli Quigley with 97 grs. of Swiss 1.5 and a 606 gr. supersized Lead Zeppelin- lots of potential recoil there, but with a rifle wt. of just under 15#s, it felt more like my 11.5# .45-70 Silhouette rifle.. Dennis

............' nother way to deal with this, albeit with lighter, and proportionately more concentric barrels.............





..................yup, not too "traditional"..............

Don't knock it, 'til you've tried it.

Regards, GTC

It is all a matter of PHYSICS... (action/ reaction)
Although unrealistic; If two rifles were designed identically, weighing the same weight, shooting the same weight projectile at the same (BP) velocity... the .22 would recoil with exactly the same ft/lbs of recoil as the .68 caliber.

[THAT is hard to get your brain around... as it has to be theoretical... smaller hole heavier/shorter barrel and the .22 slug weighing the same as the .68 slug would hang out the end of the barrel!] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jeez, being that much closer to the target might give a guy a whisker of an "edge", no? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

YES! (we'll take any advantage we can get!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Joe, I'm still toying with the fact that the rate of acceleration has a lot to do with percieved recoil........

Bigger boiler room, slower powder, push, versus punch.

Quick as some brass gets here (any moment now)...gonna run the "Big Stinker"......and see how this all plays out.

Wish I had some accelerometers, contact trandsducers, and super accurate dynamometers....to hook up to a mega -powerful computer osciliscope...and play with this.....

Long as I'm wishing, a truckload of nice German Beer would be OK, too.

Work safe, GTC

Greg,
I think you're right on the burn rate- that's probably one of the reasons why a lot of the guys shooting the 110 are shooting 1f powder (heard mention of softer, slower recoil)- maybe Kenny could add to this. ...Dennis

MY THOUGHTS (FWIW):
As we know there is a distinct difference in the (felt) recoil between smokeless and Black Powder. BP granulation should vary as well. I would suggest the total (felt) recoil...

(re: Physics 101..."for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction... blah! blah!")

...IS IN TOTAL equal; it is just obtained/reached in a different (felt) manner! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

(CONFUSING?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

103gr. of 3fg Swiss, behind a .458 dia. 550gr cast, in a 15 lb. gun.........

cracks,........... sharply, and you don't get too much smoke.

.............................certainly rattles the operator around, too.

100gr of Goex 1fg...............stomped on , with a wad, and than with the wad "picked " out......and the resultant 1" of space topped off with 20gr. 3fg Swiss, and stomped on again ( be ready to "massage" the case a bit ..............it will buldge)

.............loaded with the same 550 gr.......well, pictures speak louder than words..............this, in a 15 lb rifle.........



No smoke at all, and an ear splitting CRACK! ( We'll be shooting the same loads over the traps, and get some real world figures up...ASAP)

The same chamber, in the same cartridge, with 100gr 1fg......a real accurate "pussycat"

Were I chasing T-Rex, or troublesome African Buffalo (Cyncerus caffir) out of my garden, I'd certainly opt for the "screamer"...........

For day to day accurate target shooting, I'm perfectly happy with the " low , and slow" load.

More powder, GTC

Crossfire, I been pondering that picture for some time...tryin' to figure it that's the Shiloh Shuffle or the High Wall Hop. Do ya slap your knee when your foot gets back on the ground and yell..."Yehaw!" or a quiet "Shift!"? The C. Sharps Can Can? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ya got a Duck Stamp BTW?

Okay,I'll bite, what's a "Duck Stamp"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Had a pretty in depth sorta talk with Ernie Stallman, about heavier (in weight) guns, and recoil.

Push, versus shove, etc.

His comment was that the heavier gun, was a lot like dancing the polka, with a fat lady. Nice and soft, but once you get 'er movin',hang on on be ready for "momentum"

That picture doesn't give a very good sense of topography. Actually shooting on a bit of a slope there.

Arizona Fandango, mebbe, GTC

A duck stamp is a stamp you purchase and afix to your hunting license to hunt ducks...legally. I think he's referring to the position of your rifle in the air being one more generally seen in duck hunting than BPCR target shooting.

.................I'm still searching, fruitlessly, foir the rare, and elusive Sonorah / Chihuahua Desert Duck.......

I would imagine that , as rare as they are, they would be highly protected......so blasting one would make it...........




.................the 'Duck of Death"

GTC

Crossfire,

If there was a little more meat on your bones, well, that front leg wouldn't come off the ground. What are you, 110 Lb. soaking wet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Kelley O.

There ya go! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now you know what a Duck Stamp is....I figgered the way you was pointin' up in the air...and it being late season, high flyers and all...and well, quail don't fly up thar... Sonornan Chihuahua ducks? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> We don't allow their kind down here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Ours are the famous Straits of Florida Rubber Ducks...they only drift with the tide BTW.

Kelly may have a point, put some lead in that boot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />