Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 338WM vs 375H&H vs 338RUM

Not the first time I have heard that.....

The .30-06 stands in relation to the superb .338WM as it does to the legendary .375 H&H, this in terms of bullet diameter and weight. So, I tend to wonder WHY the .30-06 is as "able" as the .338WM and, yet, the .375H&H is SO much more "powerful"......

I think that much of the "bad rap" the .338WM received in AK and BC in the early days of it's introduction and use, was more due to poorly constructed bullets and perhaps a bit of "preconception" and "prejudice". I seem to recall a rather well-known Alaskan guide making VERY positive comments on the .338WM and he often is to be found here on the "Campfire".

That said, with loads of RE-22 and/or H-4350, among some other powders, in a 23"+ bbl. I have found the 250 NP to give outstanding accuracy, a bit LESS "felt recoil" than any of the .375H&H rifles I have shot and mvs from 2720 to 2800+, depending on the specific rifle.

These are loads which I worked out for myself in the late 1980s and early 1990s, they are NOT "hot" and exactly the same data has been published by Brian Pearce, among others, recently, so, I am content with them and prefer them to any .375 load for BC hunting.

You can only kill game so dead........

A couple decades ago I hunted with a 7RM and 338WM. Over the course of several large game animals I really couldn't decern the killing ability between the two, well placed shots are a must , if not a pass. I eventually sold both and the 338 was replaced with a 35Whelen, over 25 head of big game and a few deer I have to say I prefer it to the 338, it just staggers animals. Later I used a 375HH for a while and it kills as well as the 35 maybe a bit better but it was tied to a heavy rifle. Today I use a 30-06 for near everything, its 25% less of what a 338WM does, and a 9.3 x66 for really big stuff, near equal to a 375HH. The latter two kill animals just 'so dead' and are user friendly. I've owned two 338WM and just never warmed up to them, in spite of its excellent performance.

Well, you are one of the guys here whose opinions I respect and value highly and I certainly see your point. I tend to think that there is VERY little REAL difference in "killing power" among most sporting cartridges,given equal bullets.

I have come to choose the 9,3s for some of my hunting as my Merkel 9,3x74R and my various 9,3x62 rifles with 286 NPs are both easy to shoot and light as well as having less "kick" than my .338s. I do notice this at 66 a bit more than I used to.......

That is also my issue with .375s, they are a bit heavy for BC's mountains and I am probably going to sell my three P-64s in the "ouch and ouch" chamberings and get some coin for a new 4x4.

Will your 9,3-66 do 2600 mv with 286 NPs?

I concur, most 375's are way to heavy. That said, it aint no big trick to put one together that'll come in somewhere between 8 and 8.5 lbs ready to rock and rock.



Here's my 375 Wby

Dober

quote................
The old time guides (Andy Runion...) would tell you that a 338 is in no way the equal of a 375. For Alaska the 270 (softish) bullets were preferred over the 300s

40 and 416 bear guns hit hard and shoot flat..............

If I remember right, Pinnell and Talifson liked Remington 270 gr .375 H&H factory loads.

A few months ago I did a series of blogs on the 9.3 X 62. Among them is one that compares the .375 H&H and the 9.3 X 62, both shooting their heaviest Nosler Partitions.

But to make things somewhat even to start with, I chose the MV for the H&H that I was getting from a 22" version H&H, as my 9.3 has a 22.4" tube.

From my 22" H&H I could not attain 2600 fps... 2550 was tops.( I've also owned a 26" H&H and a 24" so have an idea of what to expect.) Anyway, I granted 2560 fps from both the H&H (300 NP) and my 9.3 firing the 286 NP. BTW, that's very realistic from my 9.3 using RL-17.

The H&H had a head start in energy to 50 yards and momentum to about 250. Past the 50 yard mark, the 9.3 X 62 took over in energy and flat trajectory, and in momentum past 300. Those are facts, not nostalgia.

I've just recently increased that load for the 9.3 by 1.5 grains and fully expect to attain 2600 fps when I get a chance to get out and try them... that's with the 286gr Nosler Partition. A ballistic profile shows that that load would be effective on moose to 500 yards. My current load is good to 450... NOT EXACTLY a 200 yard rifle on plains game!

And, btw, in a LIGHT TIKKA "Lite" it comes in with scope, fully loaded and sling at 7.4 lbs! Also, not exactly a "lite" recoiling rig!! But it's fun to carry!

If I could only use one rifle for the rest of my hunting days, the 9.3 X 62 could well be it... though it would have to "de-throne" my Ruger #1 in .45-70 IMP, an unlikely event.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I think Kutenay's on it....bullets.

Dick Gunloggson used to hoard supplies of WW 300 gr Power Points for use in the 338WM as backup for client's brown bear.

And Andy Runion and Ray Orderica felt the old copper tube 300 gr Barnes (driven fast)were better bear stoppers in the 416 Remington than 400 gr softs.

The 270 gr 375 Winchester Power Point factory load had a great reputation as well....I suggested those to a friend whose 375 did not shoot well with much else....he didn't need but two of those on a big Peninsula brown bear.Finn Aagard thought highly of that load, too.

Dober - that's cheatin!

Mine weighs about 8.5 I think, but only gets one shot before I've got to reload! Dadgumit!



Well heck, faster to reload than my muzzle loader at any rate.

Guy

Diggin' this......looks vaguely familiar.

Kutenay is correct about the 375H&H weight vs. a .338WM unless you really get serious about weight reduction on a "carry gun". However no one can argue that the .338WM falls short of anything hunted in North America.

338 win mag, 9.3x62mm, and the 375H&H. The first 2 put elk down like nobody's business: I know this from experience. However, something tells me the 375 H&H will also do the same

I would look for a good bargain in purchasing the rifle and let the cartridge pick itself - anything from a .308 to a .577 would do the job you describe.

I get around 2550 fps with the 286 gr bullet, 22" bbl, metric equivalent. that's it on the right of the avatar, loaded with a 250gr Accubond at 2700 fps. Both loads are with VV-550 powder, factory equivalent. Will be working with RL-17 when the snow flies, so there might be a bit more speed there.

I would appreciate some detailed data on this rifle as I have often considered having a .375 Roy built for BC hunting. This, started to bug me about 30 years ago, after 3-4 readings of the late Hal Waugh's autobiography and it seems to surface in my concious every so often.

I have a .338WM with some serious, functional mods, based upon Phil Shoemaker's comments in an article he wrote a few years ago and on my own experiences packing Mod. 70s while working alone in BC's wilderness. This rifle, except for the irons, is identical to yours, with a Micky stock and it is very nice to pack around without concern for "dinging" one of my more costly rifles, so, I have some interest in what one might term, the "most power in that platform" that is realistically available.

Some, might advocate a .416 Rem., but, I tend to think that ANY "softskinned" game will be dropped as or even more quickly by a high-vel. .375 and this one looks about "perfect" for the task.

So, what mv do you get with what bullets and what is the actual field weight?

How, would you compare the "kick" to the .338WM, for example?

The .375 H&H with a Speer 235 grain loaded to 2850 fps will strike like the hammer of Thor out to 350 yards - DRT on large elk and white taile deer - lesser kudu, wildebeest, impala, grants, etc all drop at the shot. Nuff said.

Terry

Curious why that choice of bullet, Terry?

For me, they'd be different rifles.... well, at least the RUM would be. I'd build or buy that one as a heavier, long range rifle.

Can't speak to the .375 either, so mostly I'm just here to say that a .338 WM is an extremely versatile and potent cartridge with legit 600 yard plus reach, loaded properly. Recoil is there, but in my 22.5" Rem 700 XCR with a Limbsaver it's no big deal. Neither were the other two .338's I've shot. Accuracy in my rifle has been phenomenal in general. I shoot it out to 650 yds and with the 225 Accubond it's a steel plate hammer.

I have a Ruger No1 in 338WM (welllllllll, actually I have two, as my Dad used to say, 'a fool and his money are soon parted
). One is a 1B and the other a sporting rifle. I also own a 375H&H Remington 700SPS DG. The 338s kick, but the No1 rifles have a decent amount of weight and are very controllable. The 700 only weights 7lbs and jumps about everywhere. The Remington recoil pad is excellent but I need to do some weightlifting to build up strength to hold onto the wee beastie, lol.

If you have big hands, the Remingtons whack your trigger finger, so check out the clearance. I put a bandage around my finger when carrying the 375.

Seeing you asked, I would go for the 338WM, as ammo is abundant everywhere and a lot cheaper than the 375. The 338WM is a better reloading proposition as well, as it doesn't have the taper that the H&H case has. The 375 H&H was designed for low pressure in the tropics and like all H&H cases, has a good taper to assist extraction under trying conditions. They were not meant to be reloaded and case life isn't anywhere near as good as with the 338WM (or pretty much any of the other magnums. A re-chamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum is a good conversion and straightens up the case and provides good case life. If I was going to Africa, I would shoot the 375 and chuck the cases, but short of a lottery win, I ain't going there anytime soon.

Buy a 338WM first, gets the job done, buy a 373H&H later to play with. Everyone needs both of these calibres at one stage in their life.

sorry but too many statements there not to respond. First, the H&H taper makes the damned things about feed by themselves as they are slightly angled inward.

"They were not meant to be reloaded...and case life isn't near as good as with the 338WM..." Why in the world isn't the H&H meant to be reloaded? That's inane at best. The reloads I have have gone 8+ reloads without any problems. But since you said, what makes the other magnum cases last longer??

Perhaps at the longest of ranges the 338WM will outdo the H&H though not sure but the H&H will do what the 338WM will do and bests it in ways.

Not sure where your opinions are from but they are way out of line with what the rest of the shooting world knows.