Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Runout!

I am a hunter who likes accurate rifle/ammo combinations and I have found that using a Lee collet sizer and a Forster match seating die solves most of my run out problems, but not all. When I find a loaded round with more than .005 run out and I want to do something about that I straighten it using a $25 Trutool. For many rifles such efforts are a waste of time.

With a little nylon bore brush and patch wrapped around it,screwed into one of those RCBS handles..

I spray it with a bit of action cleaner once in awhile.Couple of swipes inside the neck does it.


As an side: For reference,check fired cases as they come from your chamber.They are almost perfect..check at each stage of the resizing process as a reference(not every time of course),and this will tell you how bad you are screwing up cases in the resizing/seating process.Not always of course...for some reason my Redding dies for the Mashburn just come out great without all the fuss.So do my 270 dies.

Course that's because they are such great cartridges.....

I drop the sized cases into a "parts can" ( a coffee can inside a lager coffee can, the smaller can has holes in it for the thinner to drain out) that I made full of lacquer thinner as I'm sizing.

Pull the cases out, run a neck brush in them and blow out with compressed air.


Casey

I do the same thing.



A lot of guys on here seem to be right--I'm having a lot better luck keeping case necks straight with Redding FL dies. Plus, I have a Redding Nk die that sizes my 243 case necks straight too! I can get about 3 firings just neck sizing before I have to bump the shoulder back with a Redding bump die.

Although I do have RCBS, Forsters and a couple other brands that I have dedicated to individual rifles and size just fine, I intend to only buy Redding sizing dies in the future.

And Forster seaters......

Casey

I was at the range today working on seating depths for some Speer 180 gr in my .06. Quite few of the rounds I had straigtened as I described above. Some came out of the die with less than.002 runout, none more than .004 . At 100 yards I could see no difference,but this is with a rifle that typically won't shoot better than 3/4" groups at 100. With my 6.5 sporter using Norma Brass and 139 gr Accubonds,I have shot at 300 yards using staightened bullets and although that rifle still has the as issued barrel,I do shoot better than 3" groups with it.

Thinking about it,most production rifles couldahve a chamber that is .003 out of concentricty with the bore.Addto the fact that fL resized brass is essentially sitting in the bottom of the chamber. Those two varibales could vary well work with each other to perfectly align the bullet with the bore or misallignment could be additive.I don't belive run of the mill prduction rifles will show much difference in accuarcy until the round is well pass .005 in runout and that seems to be the opinion of many.

I really don't think by straigtening a bullet in the bras by maybe.002 is going to work harden the brass to a degree that anyone is going to be able to tell. Probably just by seating the bullet and expanding the brass .002-.003 is going to work harden it as bad. I don't know about straightening a round that is .007-008 out of round as I have never turned out a round that bad.

Not meaning to offend anyonehere,just gathering more knowledge.

Casey those Reddings are nice dies.

Fl. vs Neck sizing.I completed loading 100 rouds of LC69 brass that were full length resized in a RCBS die, trimmed, primer pockets cleaned, but and no other brass prepartion done. Then I loaded about 60 rounds wih a Redding neck sizer die.

These were 30-06, with 55 gr H4350, 180 gr Speer SP, flat base bullets. Seated about .025 off the lands. All had been reloaded 2-4 times. I did not chrony them and Hornady manual says about 2750. Probably closer to 2700 in this rifle

Of the 100 rounds FL sized, 60 had less than .002 runout and most were close to .001. 20 each had .002 runout,and 20 each had .003 runout. None had any more than that. Of the .002 and.003 ,I trued them to .001-.0015 runout.

Of the rounds that were only neck sized, about the same percentage came out with the same runouts, which I also trued to .001-.0015 runout.

Neither die has had any work done to it except alignment of the expander ball/rod. All were seated with a std RCBS seating die.

I have marked which rounds were less than .002, which were trued that had .002 and whcih were trued with .003 runout.

Next time at the range,I am going to compare accuracy of the 6 different rounds. The best load work up for the Model 70 I am using them in shot 3/4" groups at 100 yards.

Get someone else to secretly label the test sets and keep the key so you can only decode after you shoot them blind. Your worst runouts were only .003" so I'd be surprised if you could reliably detect any difference on target.

Agreed,but usually I am shooting alone. I'll try not to cheat.

The other person doesn't have to be there. When I was doing some thrown charges vs. weighed charges I got my mother to label/key them with a marker while I visited her in the skilled care facility.

Problem solved.

Solution was a set of Forster Ultra FL and micrometer seating dies.

Runout with the decapping pin locked down was .003. Letting the pin float gave .001 for the brass, about .002 at the ogive.

I've only played around with it for fifteen minutes or so, so I'm hoping I can improve that. Maybe I will get the rubber o ring from Ace Hardware for the decapping pin.

Pricey solution but a much improved result.

Now if I can only find some more 4350 I can finally get down to business. That stuff is hard to find.

I'd suggest the necks of ones cartridges might not be of a consistent thickness. Initial sizing might slightly eliminate that issue. Inserting a slug might bring those inconsistencies back to the surface.

A component that partially address this for me is to simultaneously outside turn and ream the necks.

Outside turning the necks will help,but all inside reaming does is decrease neck tension.

I have R-P commercial brass with necks turned that I load in a 30-06 with 180 gr and 220 gr Sierras.Typical runout with only adjusting the decapper rod is less than .003. I recently loaded 160 rounds of 30-06 with 180 gr Speers in LC 69 mlitary brass and none were over .003 and 80 % were under.002.
The LC 69 had no necks turned,no primer pocket deburring, no sorting ,only trimmed, sized and chamfered

I have loaded for over 55 rs. and never checked for run out.

Ihave shot 1/16th dots at 100yrds, got 22 out of 25,and 1/8th at 200..

Most factory guns don,t shoot good enough to tell the diff.
Your bench maners make more diff, than runout.

With a generic assumption of 30 cal., those 22 shots would fall into a sub .4" group. Was that a factory gun? What dies and procedure were used to assemble the ammunition?

Even if you never checked for runout, it doesn't necessarily follow that you didn't have very low runout anyway. I'd bet if the ammo that shoots twenty+ shots into well under a half inch was checked, it would be pretty straight.

BTW, I've tested runout and groups in a couple of factory 308's where the shooter did not know what he was doing the test shooting for, so he had no preconceived notions that could skew his shooting. Runout mattered.

Very good point, that. I would add the bench itself to the equation.

To not distinguish between .008"-.009" runout and .003" and less your bench manners would have to be pretty bad. I agree the bench (table and supports) itself does make a difference. Solid concrete works well.