|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,398
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,398 |
... and that's just ridiculous. Even at $15 a box for burner ammunition, that's $60, and at today's prices it's closer to $90 (if you can find it at all), for something that should have been done at the point of manufacture.
Kahr, I'm looking at you, but you're not the only one I've heard needs some rounds before the factory will do anything for you. Granted, I'll put some rounds through it anyway before I'm sure it's reliable, but I want 200 rounds with no problems, so that's another $90 on top of the first batch if there were any bobbles.
My K9 (ca 1997) didn't require any break-in, and neither did my Browning HP, so the plants can build them to shoot out of the box, if they want. They just choose to shift the costs to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
...and what about those that advocate 500 rounds of your favorite defensive ammo before ever carrying a gun for self-defense....BUCK+ a round... And if at round 499 the gun has a FTF...you then start over??
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,329 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,329 Likes: 4 |
YMMV, but I'm not carrying ANY weapon for offensive/defensive use until I have quite a few rounds downrange through it!  Reliability is not just about the firearm, but also the way you handle it and are familiar with it's characteristics.....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,191 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,191 Likes: 7 |
I wonder what a Glock needs for a break in period.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,828 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,828 Likes: 1 |
I for one don't buy into any round count break-in period, persay.
I feel that a new firearm should function properly out of the box, and if it does - it's good to go.
I also will not dryfire my guns to 'smooth them out' - To me that's more like trying to 'wear them out'!
My concerns about a guns reliability are addressed more by maintenence and care. (Cleaning, lubrication, etc.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237 |
I for one don't buy into any round count break-in period, persay.
I feel that a new firearm should function properly out of the box, and if it does - it's good to go.
I also will not dryfire my guns to 'smooth them out' - To me that's more like trying to 'wear them out'!
My concerns about a guns reliability are addressed more by maintenence and care. (Cleaning, lubrication, etc.)
+1 I figure if it doesn't work fresh out of the box it needs to go back to the manufacturer.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,398
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,398 |
Easy enough to say, but what do you do when you call them for a shipping label and they tell you they can't/won't help you until you've sent 200 rounds downrange? Shipping handguns is expensive, and I'd prefer the maker to pay for it.
Well, I expect all of us who are patient will get a chance to buy some lightly used/unused handguns in a year or so when people decide they need to make car and house payments. I'd like a Kahr PM9 with a few rounds on it, cutting into the number of break-in rounds I'll need to pay for. I doubt we'll see the hoarded ammo...
I wish the manufacturers would do their own internal polishing, though.
Last edited by Jaywalker; 02/14/13.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005 |
When it comes to a defensive handgun, I fer damn sure want to know it will go bang every time under every reasonable circumstance before I'll consider carrying it.
Every gun new to me gets stripped at my bench, then cleaned and lubed. It's amazing how much crud I find in new guns. Then I take it to the range and shoot a bunch of ball ammo thru it to see how it shoots for me. Some new guns like Kahrs may bobble a bit in the first few mags, but if cleaned and lubed well they'll generally straighten out within 50 rounds. Some tight guns from custom makers may take longer (I'm talking custom 1911's, some Kimbers, etc., I've known & owned in the past).
As for carry ammo, it's a lot less of an issue than it was 15-20 years ago when JHP ammo often failed to feed in some guns, notably 1911's. Nowadays that just doesn't happen much. More likely is [bleep] mags, in which case you'll get malfunctions as you get down to the last 1-2 rounds in the mag.
Like I said, I run a gooodly amount of ball ammo for starters, then make sure all my mags work with my carry ammo on the last few rounds, at which point I figure I'm GTG. I wouldn't trust a pistol I hadn't put several hundred rounds thru.
Ammo costs can be mitigated by reloading, discount shopping, etc. But maintaining proficiency requires frequent shooting, so you've got to expend ammo anyway, so I don't really understand all the complaining about ammo cost.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
When it comes to a defensive handgun, I fer damn sure want to know it will go bang every time under every reasonable circumstance before I'll consider carrying it.
Every gun new to me gets stripped at my bench, then cleaned and lubed. It's amazing how much crud I find in new guns. Then I take it to the range and shoot a bunch of ball ammo thru it to see how it shoots for me. Some new guns like Kahrs may bobble a bit in the first few mags, but if cleaned and lubed well they'll generally straighten out within 50 rounds. Some tight guns from custom makers may take longer (I'm talking custom 1911's, some Kimbers, etc., I've known & owned in the past).
As for carry ammo, it's a lot less of an issue than it was 15-20 years ago when JHP ammo often failed to feed in some guns, notably 1911's. Nowadays that just doesn't happen much. More likely is [bleep] mags, in which case you'll get malfunctions as you get down to the last 1-2 rounds in the mag.
Like I said, I run a gooodly amount of ball ammo for starters, then make sure all my mags work with my carry ammo on the last few rounds, at which point I figure I'm GTG. I wouldn't trust a pistol I hadn't put several hundred rounds thru.
Ammo costs can be mitigated by reloading, discount shopping, etc. But maintaining proficiency requires frequent shooting, so you've got to expend ammo anyway, so I don't really understand all the complaining about ammo cost. Yeah but you're rich Doc. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
One thing I noticed on a new Sig 938 was the entire slide was bead blasted or shot peened - incuding things that should have been left smooth, like the breech face. ![[Linked Image]](http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/74cafcc6.jpg) After 20-40 shots, it was starting to hang up. I polished it in those areas, so I don't have to burn hundreds of round of unavailable ammo, through an aluminum frame of limited life, to get it the way it should have left the factory 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,415 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,415 Likes: 4 |
The cars and trucks I've purchased all came with a recommendation to run the vehicle at varying speeds for the first 500 miles to break in the engine.
My old Honda motorcycle came with instructions to keep the rpm's under 6,000 for the first few hundred miles - it redlined at 12,000.
Manufactured goods are built of pieces, each piece built to a dimensional tolerance range. Kahr, among others, likes to keep those dimensions close so the new parts fit together tightly. That is a large part of what gives them their exceptional accuracy. Shooting the pistol allows those parts to wear against each other in the exact perfect spots where they touch in that particular pistol. Those exact spots of contact might vary by a few fractions of a millimeter in another pistol whose parts are all just slightly different in their dimensions.
If a manufacturer tried to polish each piece perfectly before assembly they'd still be off a bit due to those minute dimensional differences. Wearing the actual parts where they actually fit together ensures that "perfect" fit.
A factory could wear in a car-motorcycle-handgun before selling it, but the cost would then have to be passed on to the consumer and folks would then complain that they aren't buying Brand XYZ because it costs so much more than ZYX - particularly when brand XYZ has obvious wear patterns on it right out of the box!
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,499
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,499 |
I have 3 Kahrs and not one of them has ever failed to function, either during the first 200 rounds or since. The only factory ammo any of them have seen is a magazine of whatever ammo they are loaded with when carried.
There is no way to coexist no matter how many bumper stickers there are on Subaru bumpers!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,415 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,415 Likes: 4 |
Ditto - 3 Kahrs here also and after well over 500 or more rounds through each, not one has seen a failure to feed, fire, extract and eject, which is a testament to how well they're built. But I still did not trust them until I ran 200 rounds through them as the manufacturer recommends. And I won't take a brand new car on a long trip at a steady 65 mph until it has 500 miles on it at varying speeds. I would, however, wear the hell out of a virgin, if I could find one... 
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,820 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,820 Likes: 1 |
Easy enough to say, but what do you do when you call them for a shipping label and they tell you they can't/won't help you until you've sent 200 rounds downrange? Lie
Mathew 22: 37-39
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,659 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,659 Likes: 1 |
A good gun done right, doesn't need to be "broken in"; that's an urban myth & a fallback for a poor gunsmith/product.
Verifying reliability (different from durability) does need to be done with either various or a specific ammo.
MM
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
A good gun done right, doesn't need to be "broken in"; that's an urban myth & a fallback for a poor gunsmith/product.
Verifying reliability (different from durability) does need to be done with either various or a specific ammo.
MM Agree 100%. Further more the odds of failure increase naturally the more you fire the weapon. If you don't use something it can't fail, were as the more you use something the greater the odds of a failure.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237 |
Easy enough to say, but what do you do when you call them for a shipping label and they tell you they can't/won't help you until you've sent 200 rounds downrange? Lie Or don't buy a Kahr to begin with.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
I only have about 100 rounds down range thru my Kahr. Never had a problem with it and I trust it just as much as I trust anything else mechanical.
If they told me to shoot 200 rounds I would say ok. Then call them back in a few days for the shipping stuff.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,873
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,873 |
Still regularly pack my Sig P229 40S&W circa 1996. Rock solid reliable. Never a failure to function or feed.
Been looking at Kahr and Glock for a smaller lighter carry piece. Something with a little more pop than my Beretta Tomcat 32ACP. Seems like a Kahr in 40S&W wouldn't weigh much more.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
A good gun done right, doesn't need to be "broken in"; that's an urban myth & a fallback for a poor gunsmith/product.
Verifying reliability (different from durability) does need to be done with either various or a specific ammo.
MM BIG BS flag here. A friend of mine built most of the Bianchi Cup top finishers guns last year. When he build a 1911, he might put a 1000rds or more through it before the customer touches it. Don't make yourself look stupid and say he doesn't know what he is doing.
|
|
|
|
|
590 members (007FJ, 10gaugeman, 1234, 06hunter59, 10gaugemag, 12344mag, 63 invisible),
2,302
guests, and
1,250
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,575
Posts18,510,821
Members74,002
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
