Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles questions re: AR15 rifles

I'm totally ignorant when it comes to AR's so I've come here to become enlightened. I don't intend any offense. So here goes my question(s):

What do you guys use your Ar15's for? Is it mainly for competition? If it is mainly for competition, how does one go about getting involved and educating oneself about those events?

Secondly, I'm a southpaw so does anyone make them configured for southpaws?


I have a few more questions but these are some good starter questions for now. Thanks for all help/advice/answers.

Here is a link to Stag Arms, who makes a true lefty AR15. Stag Arms Lefties

I'm a lefty and I have one complete AR style rifle set up with a 20" bull barrel and a flat top receiver that I use with a scope for varmint shooting. The good thing is that you can buy seperate upper assemblies and shoot it in competitions that way. I have another lower receiver that I haven't built yet.

My AR is right handed but most of the uppers have a case deflector bump built in that makes the empties eject 90 degrees and they don't bother me.

STAG makes true left handed uppers and DPMS is starting to

Competitions are for highpower match shooting, look up the NRA for rules. Also many clubs have three gun matches for pistol, shotguns and rifles, in tactical matches. Run a Google search for rifle matches and your city or state name.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/
Great quality!

I use mine for plinking, varments and home defense and SHTF situations....

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the post so far. Are the AR's normally that expensive? They all seem to run around $1K and go up from there. Also the seem to have "short" barrels (my mindset must be still stuck in hunting mode). Is velocity going to suffer in a barrel that short?

I paid $925 for my RRA entry tactical rifle.Do you reload?

You can find good AR's for around $700.

Yes your 14" brls do lose out considerably to the 20" ones.

Here is some info a regular guy did with his AR's different ammo and a chrono.

Here is the Chrony data I got for the day.... anything with a "*" was a short stroke (failure to lock back on the known good mag)

20" Factory Bushmaster chrome lined Govt profile barrel, VLTOR carbine stock, H-carbine buffer.

Q3131A WCC04
3321
3325
3350
3348
3373
AVG: 3343

Wolf M193
3247*
3347*
3249
3223*
3295*
AVG: 3272

Wolf 55HP russian polymer
2922*
2933*
2914*
2881*
2946*
AVG: 2919

AE223 LC brass
3174
3194
3208
3221
3215
AVG: 3202


AE223 FC brass
3142
3271
3069
3161
3144
AVG: 3157


BH 55FMJ blue box
3065*
3049*
3106
3046
3018
AVG: 3056


Winchester 45gr Varmint
3352
3276
3335
3353
3287
AVG: 3320


16" Factory Bushmaster chrome lined M4 profile barrel, VLTOR carbine stock, H-carbine buffer.

Q3131A WCC04
3222
3149
3176
3077
3158
AVG: 3156 (187fps drop from 20" barrel)

Wolf M193
3153
3161
3117
3116
3112
AVG: 3131 (141fps drop from 20" barrel)

Wolf 55HP russian polymer
2805
2821
2813
2803
2817
AVG: 2811 (108fps drop from 20" barrel)

AE223 LC brass
3057
3042
3045
3038
3066
AVG: 3049 (153fps drop from 20" barrel)


AE223 FC brass
2933
2997
3025
3010
3016
AVG: 2996 (161fps drop from 20" barrel)


BH 55FMJ blue box
2925
2980
2982
2946
2921
AVG: 2950 (106fps drop from 20" barrel)


Winchester 45gr Varmint
3169
3145
3154
3163
3139
AVG: 3154 (166fps drop from 20" barrel)

You can easily assemble from parts an AR15 from $500 to $700 without even looking hard. I just sold a complete AR15 with 16" barrel for $475, as it was a beater, but it shot good and ran perfectly.

J&T sales will fix you up with a good starter gun, if you're willing to assemble the lower parts. The upper comes complete, and just pins onto the lower.

Blammer,

You inadvertantly answered one of my next questions which was how picky is the semi-auto to jams? So I guess you have to be somewhat select.

Also have accurate are these AR-15's? For example as a general rule bolt actions are more accurate. I briefly did a search and it looks like those High Power Rifle matches are shot with open/iron sights (no scopes) at 200 yds, 300 yds, and 600 yds. Pretty impressive!

You can buy just about any brand lower receiver for about $100. Lower parts kits cost about $60 and up, the buttstock and bolt buffer assembly run about $70 and up, and the completely built upper receiver assemblies with bolt and barrel run from $399 up to $1,000 or so. You can build a complete AR for just over $600.

Upper receiver assemblies can be bought with barrels up to 30" or so but the most common are 16" and 20" light barrels and 20-24" heavy barrels.

It takes about 30 minutes to assemble a complete rifle from kits on your home workbench, using a screwdriver, a couple of punches and a mallet.

EDIT: Actually the first one takes about 2 hours but I've built 5 of them in the last month so they go a lot quicker now.


Do a search for "AR kits" AR Rifle Kits" or AR Upper receivers" there are a lot of sellers out there.

I'd question your general rule. I'd agree that bolt guns can be made more accurate but not that it is a given that a random selection of factory bolt guns would be more accurate than a similar selection of AR's.

For example, I have a Tikka T3 in 270 WSM and a model 70 in 308. Both stock guns without even the advantage of bedding. Both shoot under an inch pretty consistantly. My first AR is a Colt with the 24" heavy (kinda) barrel. It out shoots both of them easily. I also have an upper that I put together from random parts assembled off the internet. It will hang with those bolt guns just fine. I have a 243 WSSM upper that also will at least stay with them and it has only been fed factory stuff. My bolt guns all benefit from handloading.

On the other side of the coin my Beowulf has been inconsistant but that may be due to my ineptness in handloading a straight walled case in an auto-shucker for it. Crimps, OAL, powder/pressure, etc may be messed up by me. I have factory stuff to try with it and then I'll have a better idea if the lack of consistent accuracy is it or me.

AR's are typically plenty accurate, unless there is a design assembly flaw, bad barrel or chamber, or other error not it's fault.

The best thing anyone can do for themselves who want one but are unsure of which one, or configuration, is to take the time to listen to the real experts on this site who have been there and done it over and over again. The guys who have forgotten much more than guys like me will ever know. From what I've seen those guys are straight shooters whose only motivation is to speak the truth and help guys out. Following good advice may be a little more costly on the front end but it's often the lowest cost route overall.

Leomort-

don't take ONE persons experience with an AR and apply it to Jamming. OF all the ammo listed I have had no jams of any kind in my AR, of course this is also one persons experience. (incidentally the AR used was ran exceptianally dirty and with out lube, he was testing worst case scenario with that one...)

AR's with proper load tweaking and good barrels can shoot with the best of bolt guns.

My AR (colt Hbar factory stuff) will shoot as accurate as many of my bolt guns.

I have seen groups posted from other AR shooters that put 5 shots into an inch or less at 100 yards.

Reliability is often linked to the mags. Not the gun. If its all running right and clean and lubed and correct ammo I expect an AR to run 100% reliable. I've yet to have a jam in a match though I've had a few mag issues at times here and there.

Accuracy. Blammer mentions 1 inch at 100. I've shot a few 5 shot groups out of one outstanding Krieger that were basically 1.5 inches, shot with a scope for testing off sand bags. At 600 yards.... I won't own a barrel that won't shoot 5 shots into 4 inches or less at 600. I either tweak the load or dump the barrel.

Most of my rapid fire ammo is tested in 10 shot groups at 300 yards. I won't accept a tube that does worse than 2 inches and prefer 1.5 or less.

Since I shoot 300 yards quite a bit, some of my best practice ammo is cheap 75 amax and surplus ball powder and will group 5 shots well under an inch at 300 yards.

They will perform and function right up there with most average bolt guns.

Jeff

How big are the targets in the competition you're shooting with AR's?

In Highpower competition(info at www.odcmp.com IIRC for a link) we shoot at a 13 inch aiming black at 200, 18 inch at 300, 36 inch at 600 and 44 inch at 800,900,1000 yards.
At 200 yards the 10 ring is 6 inches. Same 6 inches at 300 yards. Changes to 12 inches at 600 and to 20 inches at 800-1000 yards. Keep everything in the 10 ring and you win almost every match ever shot. IE few perfect scores ever.

200 yards is offhand, 1 shot per minute, and up to 2 strings of 10 shots rapid fire from sitting with a mag change in 60 seconds each, 300 is same rapid fire from prone in 70 seconds. And 600-1000 is 1 shot per minute or a bit more time depending on the match format.

If you want good info there is nationalmatch.us thats not as active as i'd like it to be but has some good folks from the PA area that shoot a lot and can give you good info!!!

That should cover a bit of it anyway.

Jeff