Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire hate the sin and love the sinner

Taken from another thread.



I have heard this before. Where is it found?

I don't know which thread this came from or what the context is. I'm guessing Muslims right? How do you evangelize a few billion Muslims that only want to scream and murder people?

Depending on which source you find, the sentiment is attributed to St. Augustine, "With love for mankind and hatred of sins." The actual quote "hate the sin, love the sinner" is credited to Mahatma Gandhi, a Hindu.

"Be at war with your vices and at peace with your neighbors." Ben Franklin ;-{>8

It's a principle more than a commandment.

We know that we are to strive to be as Christ-like as we can. Jesus was known as a friend of sinners.

Matt 11:18-19 "18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, �He has a demon.� 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, �Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.� But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.�

He lived it out too..

John 8:1-11 "1 8 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they *said to Him, �Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?� 6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, �He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.� 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, �Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?� 11 She said, �No one, [a]Lord.� And Jesus said, �I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.�"

I hope that helps...

Well done.
Jesus lived it.

There are a lot of Christian missionaries working under cover in Muslim countries right now. It's a very dangerous job that can mean imprisonment or even death if they're caught. However, they're meeting with a very high level of success, particularly among the women. The non-radical Muslim people are hungry for the truth.

Hug a Jackass nailed it, IMO. For anyone to listen to you they have to know that you care about them. "I don't much care what you say until I know that you Care"

The principle is seen in the life of Jesus and the disciples, quite clearly.

'Tis a theologically and Biblically sound and correct way to live one's life.

Easy to say, and the correct way to look at it, but it is easy to slip into a judgemental, hateful mindset to the person. I find myself going that way continually, especially as of late with all the crap going on in the news. True Christians strive for this, but like many attributes of Christ, it is easier said than done.

God Bless,

MM

P.S. I'm finding it easy this morning since I'm in a good mood, just shot a gobbler about an hour ago!

Congrats on the gobbler! That'd put me in a good mood too.

Yeah HugAJackAss nailed the principle. Rock chuck made an important point as well.

I am with you on the difficulty of this love your neighbor as yourself stuff. We are programmed for Law and fall away from Gospel quickly.

Surely the grace sufficient to cover all my sins can cover other "unlovables" as well?

Bottom line, IMHO, is gratitude. If I am grateful to God for that grace I will happily seek to show love to others who are in need of it just like me.

It is, or, originally was, a Roman Catholic, principle, rooted in the teachings of a major saint, St.Augustine, ans in recent times, had become very popular, with the great Pope John Paul II, especially, as the expostulation of official RC dogma on homosexuality.

When,a Pope, expostulates on an issue in this manner, it is NOT an "infallible" statement, as was, for example, the "Doctrine of the Assumption" and he is not "speaking Ex Cathedra". So, while RC teaching follows Christ, in this as all issues, it does not mean that a Catholic must accept the continual practice of certain human sexual practices due to being enjoined to "love" the fellow humans who engage in them.

It is a simple comment on the surface, but, the various potential ramifications are both complex and "morally" challenging. For example, I have and have always had friends whom are "gay" and I was educated and raised in a strict 1950's RC private school. While I treat these folks kindly and am not "religious", I have to be honest and admit that I do not and will never feel quite comfortable about them and this is just my "gutlevel" on this issue.

what about shunning?

2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,

1 Corinthians 5:11

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler�not even to eat with such a one.

Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

The Beatitudes & Paul's letters for understanding.

The Sermon on the Mountain is a good start place.

This book(it's free w/no pressures for donations)changed the way I look at not only sinners but also my enemies. Also made me realize the direction our country is taking.

http://torturedforchrist.com/

The context of each of those passages concerns people professing to be within the Church but actively seek to destroy it from within. Of course the "hate the sin/love the sinner" becomes a tough love situation at some point, but even shunning (ie: Church discipline) ought not be a rejection of the individual but done in a gracious and loving way to bring the sinner to repentence. Tough tight rope to walk, but thats the Christian life...

Confession time...

There is a practice very rarely used in the Church in which the congregation "delivers him over to Satan" that is actually intended to help save that individual. It comes from 1st Corinthians 5, particularly verse 5.



I can testify that this is effective, as I had once been the one "turned over" by a heartbroken congregation as a result of my sin. It took incredible love, and a deep faith that God would honor His word for them to do this.

I believe that all of these verses that you have posted line up with that practice. It's further evidence of hating the sin, and loving the sinner.

The old covenant was based on the law.
The Big Ten.

Jesus said He fulfilled the law. He eliminated it and gave a new law. A new covenant.

In this covenant He says "Love thy neighbor as they self".

This is brought up numerous times in the new T.
If you're walking in love towards someone you will not steal from him or murder him or any of the other Big Ten.

And that's all there is to it.
You stand blameless. It says
"Against such there is no law."

That's walking in love.
Loving someone does NOT mean you gotta like that sumbitch

Now, love contains discipline and correction. If you love your children you discipline and correct them, don't you. Well, speaking words of correction to sinners is part of loving them.
Tough love? I dunno if that's in the bible, in so many words, but.... it is what it is.
Speaking truth is never wrong, no matter what the PC police say.

How we say and do things and where our heart is at the time of saying and/or doing, now that we may well have to answer for...

Another thing about loving self and others is protecting them. Protection is part of love, how could it not be?

Keeping muslim terrorist and perverts away from you children, and your children away from them and their influences, is love.

Sometimes you have to defend.
Sometimes enemies must be killed.
Doesn't mean your not walking in love. It's all in your heart and only you and the Lord know.

Yep, you can love that sumbitch while you're killing him.

Gotta do what ya gotta do. God's not stupid, He knows this.

You wouldn't let a bear destroy and consume your children, would ya? If all ya had was a brick you'd use it to kill that sumbitch.

Some sumbitches have only 2 legs.
It is what it is.

See my post in the British Cemetery thread for more that ties in with this.
Being Christian isn't as hard as some people like to think it is.
And much of what they believe hypocrisy isn't. They say that as a matter of convenience and to comfort and console themselves.

Thanks guys for the input.

Yesterday at church the pastor mentioned God's "unconditional" love. That makes no sense to me. God is going to send some folks to Hell. Maybe someone can discuss this as well as they did the previous question.

Really right on discussion. Thanks for the insights.
I struggle with the application of these teachings with true radicals however, since you have to reason them out, and they won't reason with us. And the handing them over to Satan verse, well, they're more than happy to be handed over to Satan, and chop your head off while you sit passively by. At what point do you 1) walk away or 2) fight back 3) slay that person? Is slaying an adversary ever acceptible in the new covenant? How can we love our enemies as ourselves and then slay them for any reason, even self defense or defense of our family?
When we view humans value through Gods eyes and recognize that each soul is eternal, I would think we would be hard pressed to explain killing someone to God. Wouldn't he say something like, "Who are you to know my eternal plan? Who made you judge of that mans life and salvation that you would end his life, and therefore his future chance and hope of salvation?"

Enabling people to do evil is not love. Protecting people from evil is love.