Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats .224 80 grain A-max

how does the 223ai compare to 22br in terms of velocity regarding the bigger stuff (8 or 9 twist)?
are you killin' the 223ai with a 80 grainer and a 220 or such would make a better platform or does the ai have the steam to do it all?

woofer

I don't know, having not done a 223AI or 22 BR.

The distillation of my AI experience has been that regardless of the case that is improved, the heavier the bullet, the less increase in velocity there is. In the 257AI the 75 grain bullets get the biggest velocity boost, while the 120 grain bullets get the least. Add to that that the occassional problem of 40-degree shoulders just not wanting to feed smoothly in some actions, my 257AI in Savage 99 or 250AI in Ruger 77 for examples.

Jeff

woofer: http://www.6mmbr.com/22BR.html

I treat the 223AI,as I do anything else,be it K-Hornet or 378Wby.

I extrapolate pressure levels,indicative of case life and prudent sizing technique. Now I'm mighty partial to my lips and appendages and am in no hurry to accelerate my demise.

As to the 223AI proper,I typically drive brass for 10 pokes and toss it,because brass is cheap and I'm not much into running on fumes. Those of a mind to be more frugal than that,could likely eek a goodly more relative case life,but that's sorta a line I draw in the sand and say "good 'nuff' and walk away.

If the 223AI was a fruitless excersize in bunk ballistics,I'd still be driving the 223 as my mainstay [bleep] & Giggles chambering.

That ain't the case and there might could be a pun there........................

Because the 22-250AI has a CH more capacity than a Swift,it'll operate at or a CH beyond Swift velocities.

The 22-250 has room for Improvement and dat's why the increase in capacity is yielded. I'd not look to "AI" the 284 or it's ilk,due to it's jaunty issued dimensioning. The 300H&H is a candidate for marked improvement and alotta folks can't know the 300Wby is essentially a 300H&H Weatherby Improved.

Now,as to the 22-250AI proper,I can like 50's fueled with Re-15 at 4000fps,just like every Swift I've ever owned.

As to the oft espoused "Ratio Rules",I'm not too hung up on trivia and am contented to deal in the firsthand. There are simply chamberings who's inherent design,starve available capacity and who's capacity isn't at the upper echelon of "overboretitude". Meaning simply...gains come easily.

Tis my observation,those chamberings reap dividends when punched out and the 223 is one of 'em............................

Nosler 5 grants 3860fps with 40's and 3540fps with 50's,in the 223.

Do I think punching a 223 to 223AI will grant 4000fps with 40's and 3750fps with 50's,if a cat drives moly?

No...I KNOW it will.......................

norton, thanks for the link. looks like w/moly they are neck and neck (the puns kill me).
260, thanks for saying what i was trying to ask.....
if your lookin' at a 75 or 80 grain pill out to 400 or so is the 22-250 and up a better vehicle or the 223ai still humpin' along... the 40's and 50's i understand.....

woofer

I've no qualm taking the 75A-Max to 1K,with the 223AI.

Do it all the time......................

uh, i guess that covers most of my questions <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

woofer

My last date with the .22-250 AI on a 26" barrel yielded a 3 shot group at 1,000 yards of 5" with the 75 grain Amax. Too bad I botched the last two shots and chucked them into 8 inches. I got a bit excited me thinks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I am quite fond of the 75 grain Amax and load it exclusively in my 8 twist Sako. The piggies in Texas didn't seem to like it much either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Flinch

Speeds?

My next rifle is gonna be a 23" 22-250AI,twisted 8" on a Rem Classic handle w/HS DBM......................

Stick,

Not trying to bust your balls just curious about the 223 AI. You seem to be gaining 200-300 fps over the standard 223. The regular 223 is usually tested with a 24" barrel and I seem to remember you liking a 21" 223 AI barrel. It looks like the AI version holds 3 grains more powder. Any idea as to the pressure you're running those rigs? Seems like your load might could be a smidge warm...

Looking at the Barnes #3 Manual the 223 with a 24" barrel is running 50gr bullets @ 3400-3450 fps. You're running a 223AI with a 21" barrel and getting 3750 fps???

That's well into the 22-250 range of velocity for a 50gr Bullet out of a 24" barrel.

I'm thinking those loads would get you in trouble down here where the weather runs on the warm side with a good dose of humidity thrown in for good measure.

The Nosler barrel was 24"(for conversation).

I've never seen any real ballistic's edge in a 24" 223 over a 21" version of same.

Gaining 200fps via the increased capacity and moly,stands reasoning to me. I've no pressure testing equipment,so couldn't quantify a designator but as mentioned prior,I shoot brass 10x then toss it for new.

I could believe 65K psi...........................

Velocities vary a goodly deal,manual to manual and one can pick a Horse of any color.

If on the ragged edge,I think hot chamber temps would induce weirdness,as a hot barrel isn't a practice I'm immune to.

With the 223AI doing what it does(I have a herd of 'em),why do you think the 22-250 largely interests me none?.......................

Should add...I've seen/shot "high pressure" stuff as an accidental byproduct in load development,in more than a few chamberings.

We all shoot the same identical 223AI loads,to the tune of probably 20 rifles,betwixt Paradise and DownSouth pards....................

I was thinking of the 22 Hornet vs. 22 K-Hornet and 300 H&H vs. 300 Roy Mag as the exceptions when I posted my opinion that AI improvements are only fractional in MOST AI applications.

How did I let myself get dragged into this conversation? All I wanted to know is what % increase in real capacity advantage is offered by the 22-250AI vs. the plain 22-250. Does the 22-25AI's increase in velocity fall into the 1 to 4 rubic and if not, how much better is it doing than the 1 to 4 rule suggests that it should?

How much more capacity does a 223AI case have over a plain 223? If you compare the 222 and 223, you see a 4 grain increase in capacity, from 27 to 31, or 14.81%. The 1 to 4 ROT suggest that we should expect to realize a 3.7% increase in velocity. According to Sierra #4, 27.1 grains of 748 will produce a velocity of 3300 fps in the 222, while the 223 will do the same with 28.3 grains, both being maximum loads with a 50 grain bullet. An increase of 1.2 grains, 4.43%, but no increase in velocity. According to Speer #12 shows 26.0 grains of AA2520 producing 3270 fps, while the 223 will do 3328 with 28.0 grain, both being maximum compressed loads with a 50 grain bullet. An increase of 2.0 grains, 7.69%, capacity lead to an increase in velocity of 58 fps, 1.77%, a ratio of 4.3446 to 1.000. Pretty close to the ROT.

Also from Speer #12 are the following maximum 50 grain bullet velocities for the 222 Mag are 3514 with 28.5 grains of H335, 3641 from the 225 with 33.5 grains of IMR 4046, 3804 from the 22-250 using 37.0 grains of AA2460, and 3868 from the 220 Swift using 46.0 grains of VVN160.

I hope that I ran the numbers correctly, if not, please let me know.

Jeff

My scales are away at Camp and I can't know if I have the conversion capacities written in my records.

A Search here,could likely yield the data,because I've posted the differences before for the chamberings mentioned,as well as for the 25-06AI.

I've never had a Deuce that'd run with a 223,but believe me I've dearly wanted it to happen. Never had a 223 that can run with a 223AI either and that also woulda been sweet. The differences betwixt each,has far exceeded the 1 to 4 "rule".

As an aside,Nosler 5 denotes a 300fps edge to the 223,over the Deuce(3564fps) and the same for 50's(Deuce 3247fps). That's what my barrels,in those two chambering,tended to illustrate to me.

Nothing in .224" interests me,in the way the 223AI do....................

The 223AI debate continues. A link to a thread from last year may add fuel to the fire. or not
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/617750/page//fpart/1/vc/1

Growler

The commercially loaded .223, and even the load manual data for the .223 leave a lot of untapped potential.

Remember the .223 is spec'd at 55k lbs-psi max pressure. It was designed to run in a gas-gun. Take any factory load and shake it, it's not even full of powder.

A modern turnbolt action opens up a completely different safe operating parameter. Increase the volume via AI, pack it with a 100-105% load density, moly the bullets and lengthen the COL, and ramp up the operating pressure to around 65K, it is completely feasible to realize a good 200 fps increase in velocity.

It's not black magic, just maximizing the potential of the case.