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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
In what scenario would that video be a good idea?
Test drive?


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
That's why small departments, if they exist (which I often question if they even should), shouldn't provide anything but basic patrol functions. That guy is a Campfire thread waiting to happen.
If the citizens want a SWAT team, they should dang well pay for it and pay well. Otherwise, it'll end in disaster.


I can see a small agency such as curdog's Sheriff's Office having their guys get SWAT training for the tactical entry and assessment information.

Knowing how and when and WHY to conduct a dynamic entry is a valuable skill set to have, particularly if you are by yourself in a remote area and need to get in and rescue someone.

Sometimes, having the training means you DO NOT make a dynamic entry, but find another way. It is another tool in their toolbox.

Same with the sniper training. There is much more to sniper training than sneaking up and putting a bullet in some bad guys melon.
I can see a possible reason for those guys to have done what they did in Phoenix, but it requires a set of circumstances that we have not been privy to.

Ed



Ed, there's a lot of wisdom packed in your short observation.
I perceive problems in today's law enforcement, but those I see perceive to be due to the wrong kinds of training.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Ed, there's a lot of wisdom packed in your short observation.
I perceive problems in today's law enforcement, but those I see perceive to be due to the wrong kinds of training.


I would modify your observation and make it "a lack of perspective in the training", not the wrong kind of training.

Every LEO needs to know how to safely do a dynamic entry, assess situations from "the big picture", take an accurate, single shot, deal with multiple adversaries, and many other things taught in advanced schools.

They just need to have, and keep some perspective.

Every community now is a terrorist target, regardless of how small or how much like "Mayberry" they seem.

The recipes for terrorist attacks have been changing and the prognostications are coming true. There WILL be more "lone wolf" attacks, they will involve smaller, soft targets, and they will be designed to bring the message that no where in America is safe.

This fact alone makes advanced training necessary for every agency.

The agencies just need to keep it all in perspective.

The ONLY way they can to that is through constant interaction by the citizenry with everyday, ordinary officers, at all levels.

It is YOUR LE agency, give them your input. Constructive, of course, but give it to them. Call them on questionable behavior, but give kudos for each and every thing that is done right. There has to be balance. If all the cops in your area hear and see is azzholes and people complaining about how they do their job, it will ALWAYS be an adversarial relationship, not the partnership it should be.

You can't have a safe community without them, and they can't do their job without you. Period, full-stop.

Off my soapbox now.

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



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Training is not a cure-all. That young Mexican American Police officer in Austin had ZERO training in going up on top of an observation tower and taking out Charles Whitman with the help of one citizen.

I kinda think that cops like him attract citizens like that.


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You are 100% correct. The LEO should have "the right stuff" to begin with. Unfortunately, they all don't.


There are some LEOs out there, and some citizens, that I would go through "any door, any time" with. Some I would not, and have not.


That young officer AND that single citizen had the right perspective and the right mindset. Those qualities can make up for a lot of formal training.

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



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Quote
The recipes for terrorist attacks have been changing and the prognostications are coming true. There WILL be more "lone wolf" attacks, they will involve smaller, soft targets, and they will be designed to bring the message that no where in America is safe.


'scuse me,......the Krentz Family, Brian Terry's kin, and a LOT of my neighbors (and I) would say that your advisory is a bit TARDY.

In some areas the message has been crystal clear, for A LONG time.

A few (too few) have been aware of this in real time.

gtc

Last edited by crossfireoops; 05/25/13.

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No disagreement here, Greg. The folks along the Border have been facing this for a long time. It's the lack of communication of those difficulties by the media that makes the message late or give a lack of perspective or accent on the danger.

Our use of this social media can do a lot to spread information that would otherwise go unnoticed.


There are threats out there that any of us may face on any day at any time and require us to remain aware of our surroundings and the people around us.


Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
In what scenario would that video be a good idea?


Someone shooting from the house, but as was pointed out that doesn't seem to be the case since others were standing around. Or I could also see one entry if it was a long funnel otherwise, yeah, I'll have to concede they'll have to have a pretty good reason for smashing two holes and unless the guy was actively shooting, I don't think they could.

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Did they stomp the cat and kill the dog?
If not, they failed.

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Originally Posted by BrnBear
Did they stomp the cat and kill the dog?
If not, they failed.


That's the new favorite thing for the cops to do here in Colorado, go around shooting everyone's dogs.

After that recent incident where the cop shot the dog in the owners garage, while animal control had him on a control stick....and it was all on video....citizens announced they had enough. Now all CO cops have to get trained on how to be smarter then a dog, and these shooting will receive a higher level of review.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BrnBear
Did they stomp the cat and kill the dog?
If not, they failed.


That's the new favorite thing for the cops to do here in Colorado, go around shooting everyone's dogs.


The article I found quoted 30 dogs in 5 years. That's 6 dogs per year.

ONE dog every SIXTY days FOR THE WHOLE STATE.

Hardly "everybody's dogs", so drop the drama.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Now all CO cops have to get trained on how to be smarter then a dog, and these shooting will receive a higher level of review.
Glad to hear it. That should be nationwide. Most police agencies seem to have adopted the attitude than any but a police dog is entirely disposable at the whim of a police officer.

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Watched the original video and others have noted, something is not right..

Taking a clue from the title, I wonder if the interior of the house had some serious, perhaps multiple internal barricades?

As for using the truck, unless it was some sort of emergency, (which it didn't look like) If external walls need breaching I would have thought SOP would have been to use explosives and put a couple of mouse holes in? Maybe even go in through the roof and attic, and drop right into the room they need?

These days, structures can be breached with water cannon type devices, but a well designed frame charge will certainly effect entry in the majority of cases without causing too much damage inside..

Last edited by Pete E; 05/27/13.
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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BrnBear
Did they stomp the cat and kill the dog?
If not, they failed.


That's the new favorite thing for the cops to do here in Colorado, go around shooting everyone's dogs.


The article I found quoted 30 dogs in 5 years. That's 6 dogs per year.

ONE dog every SIXTY days FOR THE WHOLE STATE.

Hardly "everybody's dogs", so drop the drama.


We had about 3 in one month, all in the Denver area (for some reason the County Sheriff's, and deputies seen to be smarter then the average k-9). In each case the incident appeared unjustified, and gave the impression the officer was just looking for an excuse to shoot something....

These incidents just worked to reinforce negative police stereotypes, and were not good for police/public relations.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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