Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 1895, 45-70 load for a bear hunt

I told my wife if I got promoted to SGT. I was going on a bear hunt. Well I got striped, and I are going to Newfoundland adventures for black bear in the spring of 2014. I thought about the taking my cross bow for about a minute and then came to my senses. I have a marlin 1895 that begs to be taken on this hunt and it has never killed anything but paper. I have decided to go with a Meister bullets, 405 gr cast LFP, over about 40grs of 4198. I am looking for about 1700 FPS, but I know that 1600 fps or so will still be plenty of power. I plan to use the XS peep sight as shots are typically close, under 50 yds. I just have to find a load that shoots and get the sights adjusted. I cannot wait to go and getting my marlin ready to go will enjoyable. Any one have some wisdom to impart that would help out? Not going to shoot a small bear, I will come home empty handed before I would do that.

That load'll do. I know the Beartooth Piledriver Jr at 1650 fps is plenty good bear medicine....

They used to kill buffalo with a 405 at around 1300. Bears should succomb to those loads.

I figure that speed is not a big requirement, just window dressing. The 45-70 is like a frieght train, so so on the speed but you do not want to be in front of one. it just crushes things!

cs2,
Will you be hunting over bait stations? The only consideration might be the range you plan to hunt at.

Put 52 to 53 grains of H4895 behind the 405's and go kill stuff. I load about 55 grains to push them up to 1,750 fps, but that comes close to killing on both ends.

Even factory fodder at about 1,300 fps will more than freight train a black bear.

Color me envious and put up some post hunt pics,

ppine, it will be over bait, 20 to 40yards max range. as to punishing on both ends, well that's why I looking for 1700 at max speed to 1600 fps . Fast enough and power to spare!

XS Peep site problem. The windage screws on this site are butter soft. I called the company and told them about it. I am sure they know about already. They are sending me two replacements screws. Any one else noticed this? I like the site, but they really need to improve the quality of the provided screws. Any degree of usage, like sighting in for load developement and they bugger up.

I noticed the windage screws on the XS rear sight were a little short.

I went to the local hardware store and bought replacement screws that are a tad longer. Plenty of thread engagement.

Even a 300-320 at those speeds wouldn't be lacking. The most important detail will be shooting enough of whatever you choose to be very confident in the load. "Placement trumps power," especially since you will be boring a long, narrow hole.

Montana Marine, I bought replacements at the hardware store. They seem to be tapered, and only go in about half way before they get tight. I do not want to force them past that point. At half way in they do not tighten/engage the aperture. They are allen heads also. The hardware store did not have metric sizes in stock to try. Just the standard sizes. I will have to look elsewhere for them. For the time being I will have to use the junk set screws that the are sending as a replacement. I hope to get my hand load sighted in and practice with it. I will shoot a dozen or so shots each time I go to the range. Hope to be with in minute of bear by the early spring of 2014.

I bought size 8-32, 1/4". It was a perfect fit. They are the allen socket type. The screws protrude out the sides of the sight base just a tad, less than 1/16". The good thing is there is full thread engagement to keep things tight and strong.

Maybe with the original screws you might have chewed up the threads on the inside of the sight base. If so you could probably chase them with a 8-32 tap and clean them up.

I went through this a few years ago, just remembered something.

The repalcement 1/4" screws did protrude out the sides of the sight base a little more than I liked.

After sighting in the rifle, I then filed down the set screws on the inboard side, until they were a length that just slightly protruded from the sight base, when snugged down. It was a little bit tedious, but the result works well, and looks good.

I plan on using the 525 Pile Driver's with RL-7. Shots are generally 50 yards and under, so I feel fine with using the giant bullet.

Gents, if you loaded a relatively soft(30:1) Lyman 457193,420 grain gg slug over 65 grains FFG blackpowder, the 45/70 would blow daylight through any critter you could draw a bead on for distances that would shock you. The soft alloy penetrates DEEP and expands well. Killers.

Montana Marine, I'm pretty sure that 8-32-1/4 is what I bought at the hardware store. They still seem to tight going into the sight base. The last thing I want to do is mess it up. I do not have a tap, but I could can buy one to clean up the threads. Thanks for all your help. As to the soft bullet thread, The Meister bullet I am using is rated by them at 9 on a Seaco lead hardness tool. Meister claims that this equal to wheel weights. I think that at 1600 to 1700FPS that bullet will be fine. It is lively off the bench at the range, however I doubt that I will feel it when I have the chance to shoot a bear. What appeture are you using? I am going to try the .190 as the 230 seems to large.

I'm using the .190 aperture and it seems like looking through a bay window.

I've never installed the .230 to see how it looks.

Getting the 8-32 tap is a good idea. I chased the threads on mine before using the longer screws too.

When I originally sighted mine in, the windage zeroing put the rear sight pretty far to the left, and the set screw on the right actually fell through to the inside of the sight base.

I think those original screws are only 1/16" or so. They look nice recessed and all, but only one or two full threads are engaged at best.

I'm kind of surprised XS doesn't ust a little longer screw from the git go.

C2

I'm off to Alaska for black bear in September with my 1895. Was going to look into the Skinner sights but don't know if anyone has any experience with them. Currently using 400 Speers at about 1850 but many say this bullet is a little soft. Good luck on your hunt and congrats on the stripes.

Almost forgot, when I go to the range with this rifle I get all kinds of funny looks. It seems many younger shooters have never seen an old fart with a lever action. Most are hesitant to shoot it though..........she kicks just a bit!

Yes, The loads we are shooting are a bit jumpy off the bench! I have gotten some strange looks while at the range . No one takes me up on the chance to shoot a few rounds from the 1895! At least after they see me shooting it! I do have a weaver. 1 to 3 power scope that would work on this rifle but it just seems to want to wear the XS peep and go to newfoundland to look for a bear. I think the peep will be bright enough for most of the shooting opportunities that would be presented there. Since I cannot use a rifle here for deer hunting,shotgun only, I cannot think of a better gun to take upnorth with me.

I have used my 1895 (first model circa 1972) for Bear and have been quite successful with 53 gr 3031 / 400 gr Speer flat point , Devastating on Bear , but you won't want to shoot it in a T shirt !!

I am going to sell this rifle , Look for it over on the Classifieds in a few minutes

Here's what a bear looks like after encountering a Speer 400gr SPFN at 1,730 ft/sec. That's the entrance and exit holes that you're looking at!

Yeah, buddy! And these guys try to tell us that a 45-70 doesn't have real horsepower. Properly loaded, a 45-70 will hammer anything on the planet. Thanks for posting that picture.

Looks like some of the far shoulder came outta there !!
Last Boar I shot with the 400 gr entered in his nose , right next to his eye , coming up a cliff right at me ;
NO EXIT wound !!
When I ripped him up , there was NOTHING identifiable from brisket to bunghole !! Just one huge cavity of sloppy joe !!
He never twitched , kicked, shuddered ,er nothin'.
Looked & looked , but no bullet fragments were found !
Well , I didn't go thru that mess with a sieve !
My rifles for sale on classifieds ,Early straight grip Western style gun

that is an awesome picture!, However if that was a deer I would be concerned about losing so much meat. that 400gr speer is a hammer! Does anyone have advice on what I can do to get my rifle ready for this hunt, Last time my friends went it rained every day. my rifle is blues and wood stocked. I assume car wax on the blues parts and lin seed oil on the wood part inside and out. At the end of each day of hunting a good wipe down with dry rag? any thoughts would help a lot. Thanks MB

If I were to use this bullet on a whitetail I'd just place it BEHIND the shoulder. Any 45-70 bullet in the shoulder of a deer is likely to make quite a mess.

As far as hunting in the rain - when on stand I use a Porta-roof umbrella and keep everything dry. For spot & stalk, good luck. LOL

One would assume an ideal shot placement on game you are going to eat (that probably would'nt eat YOU) would be in the ribs for a heart /lung shot , however on a Bear of any color, I think that picture displays a most definite bullet performance to ANCHOR a threat to the shooter's well being !!
I'm thinkin' a serious amount of shoulder bone shrapnel contributed to that horrendous exit hole !
I wouldn't hesitate to use My load (400 gr speer Flatpoint
53 gr 3031 @ 1900fps on Brownies or Griz'
My Gun w/ a Quantity of New Handloads is for sale over on Classified page , Check it out . Thanks

I agree with you on things that could chew on you! I wonder how bad off the hide was after such a shot? Maybe all that damage stayed on the inside and there was only a thumb sized exit in the hide. I would still have to go with anchoring shot just to sure, and be alive to worry about the hide later.

Montanna Marine, thanks for your tip on fixing the XS peep sight windage screws. I followed your advice and the mod worked like a charm! I also switched out to the smaller appeture. Thanks to you I am headed back to the range to continue load development and sight in. A sore should awaits!! Thanks Mike

Cool!

Cs2blue ,
I just reread your prev' post on the 1895 45-70
I have found that an aperature screwed into the sight can be helpful in sighting in , however when in the pursuit of any game , REMOVING the screwed in aperature is of great benefit !
Used as recommended , the sight will be the fastest in the woods .
The human eye will find the center of that threaded hole all by itself ; The last thing you need to do is try to help it !
If you have a Gold bead front sight , BLACKEN IT , throw that Bead on your game , while looking thru & past that hole , and your eye will do the rest !!

Good hunting !

That pic makes me feel better.

The ole 45-70 is a stoner fer sure.

Gunner

I thought you would appreciate that once you saw the picture.

Bettin my fist would easily fit that exit wound, sure to take some major starch out of the bulls and bears.

Gunner

This thread makes me remember Elmer Keith.

Big ole bullets at modest velocity will do the job, as always.

I sorta went the other way. I use TSX 250's at 2,550 fps (Barnes 1895 load with Vv N120) in my "primitive" deer gun, an 1895 BPCR. That load will work in an 1886 or Marlin 1895, I have both.

last Fall, it blew through a whitetail, devestating the heart and lungs. I think it would do a job on a bear.

DF

can't say I agree with blackening the gold bead on a front sight for hunting bear.

at the intended ranges you spoke of hunting over bait using the rifle on a black bear, I'd be inclined to fret a bit about that front sight having a tendency to disappear in that dark hide which certainly would not aid in shot placement from the way I see it.

add low light to the equation and it'd give me pause before I decided to black out that front sight.

one of our guide guns is set up with a tritium insert fs and I'm not so certain that they won't all be, eventually.

yeah the dang things are spendy, but then so are guided hunts, at least that's what all the clients told me over the years.

full disclaimer, I've not ever blackened any of my front sights and often times those sights are plain black on some of the levers we own.

but for this application it just seems counter intuitive, to me anyways, to black that sight out.

hope you bag a big'un. You've chosen a great rifle and cartridge for your application ime.

I load 405 Bullet Barn gc cast to 1985 fps and 525 gr Bear Tooth Pile Drivers to 1650 fps out of my Marlin guide gun ! Bears never run very far if at all with either of these loads ! RJ

i bought marlins in 45-70 and 450M on a recommendation from a friend. he said they're good for evening hunts so there's no tracking! i haven't even shot them yet, but i guess i stumbled on a great gun. i've hunted lever guns for years, but always 30/30 which is plenty for small whitetails at 50 yards like i usually see. thanks for all big bore levergun info.