Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Which bullets?

Hey SU

I think it's physics on the animal end, it's an unexplained phenomena on the shooter end.

Here is the deal from my view:

There is something just really functional with a 300 grain bullet at 2500fps which was the original 375HH arrangement. This was a very powerful and decisive round for which some thousands of buffalo were killed by Hunter, Taylor and many others.

Weatherby "improved" it by getting that 300 grain bullet to 2800fps with the 375Weatherby.

Some time later he went further by going to the 378 Weatherby, which IMO was too much of a good thing. Probably ranking it as one of the most difficult to shoot rifles due to recoil I have ever had the displeasure to pull the trigger on.

Now with the available powders to choose from with the 375HH, it's easy to get the 300 grain bullet to 2600 plus FPS which is a very happy medium between the 2500 original and the original 2800fps Weatherby loading.

Add to this the BarnesX bullet and it just keeps getting better. Now consider that the 270 grain bullet which does not shed it's jacket, retains all it's weight. Shoots with bench rest accuracy and goes over 2800fps with ease,... in all ( or most) 24" barrels. Even Hornady's magnum loads do 2850 as a factory load!

So consider that a 270 TSX at 2850 will exceed in every aspect the potential of the original 375HH weatherby with the cup and core bullets available at the time. The 375 Weatherby was an absolute DG killer during it's manufactured life. It was a plains game hunters dream for exits and blood trails. This was probably the best factory 375 cartridge ever made.

With that thought, think about what we have today, the plain old 375HH is the equal now, actually equal or superior to the 375weatherby of old. In much the same way the 30/06 is the equal, or better round then the 300 Win mag of old when the 300 win mag is using 180 grain cup and core bullets. The 165 grain TSX with modern powder is a far more effective round then the 300 win mag with cup and core.

So that's the story on the receiving end of things, but what about the delivery end? That is more complicated for me to grasp. There is a threshold most men, or even most people can tolerate regarding muzzle blast and recoil. Sure there are exceptions, I shoot a 458 Lott often and it's not great but I can get through it. Most guys shoot once and done with that rifle. It's an acquired taste to say the least.

The 375HH seems to be about the right balance of rifle weight, recoil velocity or "shove" and power delivery. I have written in more articles and books then I can count that the 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil you make.

The diameter and weight of that bullet is about the biggest mass you can shoot at 2800fps and remain relatively comfortable. Bigger bullets go slower, but they shove or kick much harder. Smaller bullets going faster tend to "spear" your shoulder. I have heard it said that if you can handle the 375HH you can handle the 416............ which 416? There are lots of 416's. I did not care for the 416. IMO if the 375HH is not enough rifle, 458 is the next logical step up. To me, the 416 was just not enough better to justify the additional recoil for the increase in power. Further more find the spare 416 ammo in the remote areas of the world, Which one will they have? With the 375HH ammo is everywhere. Under the truck seat of Alaskan guides, and the land cruiser of the PH in Tanzania through Botswana and down the Port Elizabeth in the Eastern Cape of RSA. Even in Mongolia, Turkey, Nome, and Romania there is 375HH ammo in plentiful supply. The 375 Weatherby shoots 375HH ammo just fine too!

Lots of 416's are sold and some of my best friends own and use them. I've never seen a 375HH fail to work where a 416 would have been somehow better or visa versa. They are both outstanding, but the 375HH has much less recoil to my highly calibrated shoulder! I have watched my 458 Lott simply crumple things that would have functioned a while with the 375HH or the 416. Elephants Hippos and Rhinos come to mind.

My 375HH has killed a few Rhino, Elephant, and Hippo and quite a few Brown bears. Never lost a single one, even with a 5'2" 110 pound lady shooting all the big five with my rifle. Including several species twice on additional trips!

(I'm guessing on the weight, sorry if I was a couple pounds off, you did eat a lot of deserts on your trips though! )

So there is something quite astonishing about the 375HH. The power delivery simply does not match the recoil received. My client list is heavy with 375HH users. My co-PH's using the 375HH is also weighted heavily on the 375HH scale. Both in Alaska and Africa. My hunting partner and mentor for most of my formative years Duncan Gilchrist was the introduction to my 375HH. He was one of the most successful Alaskan guides for Brown bears all time. He took the 375HH to Africa and killed everything he pointed it at.

Anyway, it's the internet right! everyone has an opinion. This is mine hope it helps. Plenty of others will see things in other ways based on the experiences they have. This is just what I have seen and what I believe based on my first hand on the ground experience. Nothing I read or heard, just my hands on knowledge.

Jim, Thank you! good post.

I am thinking that frontal area mixed with weight make for a deep and wide mixture for a wound channel that clobbers animals.

Anyways, my 375HH weighs in at 7 lbs 2 oz. There is some push to it for sure.
I have shot a lot of 338/250's in the same rifle weight.

Actually the 338 winmag with a 250gr doing 2600(I consider a max load) is a pretty good NA load. I dont load it at all any more since getting my 375H&H . Lower pressure, 50 more grains weight and greater diameter of .037"

JJ your comment on the 30/06 doing the job for the 300 mag and using the 270 TSX in the 375 H&H kinda goes with my thinking on pairing the 308 Winchester and 375 H&H on safari. For me if I do not feel the 308 with 168 TSX is up for the job I go straight to the 375 H&H with the 270 TSX.

My $.02: If you're going to bring a .375, why bring an 06 at all?

I bring two but if I could I would bring four (maybe five)


I would also be wiling to stay and learn to build a bridge if needed and sort out any problems

Some guys want a spare?

In all my years of this, I have seen only a handful of rifles break. Oddly they are mostly the same brand. Few guys bringing two rifles used both of them. Most stuck with the bigger one. Several were talked out of the bigger one gently and stepped down to the smaller gun ( always to improve their shooting)

I cannot recall more then a handful of scope failures in total. On a couple occasions the shooting was poor so the scope was changed. That was the "fault" of the poor shooting.......... Guess the spare was bad too in those cases!

a number of folks have brought guns that were too big for their capability. Many have ended up with my 30/06 figuring that there was something wrong with their gun. Shooting improved instantly........... go figure, most folks shoot a 30/06 better then the 7mm weatherby, 338, 340 weatherby and the 416 rem mag.

Over the years watching guys sight in rifles before the hunt, it becomes pretty easy to pick out experienced riflemen with lots of practice and those that are gonna struggle. I had a guy hand me his scope in a new box, 5 boxes of different brands of ammo, and his 300 win mag. He said he did not have time to put it together before the trip and he could not shoot it due to recoil enough to zero it.

So he asked me to go off get it organised and then we could go out. He did not even want to shoot it one time at the target. He was very recoil sensitive, but was able to shoot the game he needed. That was one of the strange events of my career. However it has since happened more then that one time with others as well? Strange to plan a trip like this and not prepare with a single practice shot! Not even when you arrive!

Bottom line is most don't use the second rifle.

Hey.......... here is a funny anomaly. I have read on this site,....... huge angry verbally violent debates over the dependability of various rifles.

The words It's never failed on me, never failed to feed, never failed to eject, never failed to fire, " I've used this gun for 30 years" and before that my dad and before that his dad, it's always worked and never had a problem. It's been frozen, and packed to the highest peaks, the coastal waters, and the desert sands. But they discuss bringing a spare rifle to hunt with!

Change out Rifle for Scope and it's the same story.

That's some funny stuff to me! It's somehow worth the angry stressful debate to prove your point only to admit it's not dependable enough to trust on a hunting trip!

Yes, indeed that would do!! Great looking rifle!

Mine is a total embarrassment compared to that beautiful gun!

Mine could be confused with a canoe paddle, and a pretty well worn one at that!

If it's the one I used, it can hold it's own. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Besides, everything yours got pointed at died.

JJ

Why bring a second rifle? Two reasons.

1) We're rifle nuts
2) We're paranoid of Mr Murphy

But I will admit the irony of bringing backup for a tool so highly lauded.

JJHACK,

You mentioned the larger diameter causes more blood on the ground. For that very reason I decided to leave my .257SLR behind. I have not noticed any difference in my ability to fire one any more accurately than the other. But there is a world of difference in weight. The .375-.416 comes in at 11 1/2 pounds with ammo while the .257SLR weighs only 7 1/2 pounds with ammo.

Based on some of the posts about scopes I think I will replace the Bushnell 4200 4-16X40 with a Bushnell 6500 2 1/2-16X42 for the larger field of view.

What about just shooting that beautiful thing with irons? Are most of the shots on bigger stuff inside ~100-150 yds? I realize you lose some refinement with irons, but I don't think the results from field positions at shorter ranges would be meaningfully different.

I've never taken a second rifle but only because I brought both a rifle and a handgun.

I've never had a firearm fail but have had scope problems on two different trips; both on heavy recoiling handguns. The first time, toward the end of the trip the scope lost the ability to stay zeroed. The second time, the rear scope ring broke.

Yes it is the one you used, It's kinda like a really old pair of cowboy boots, or jeans. Worn in and comfortable but also at the edge of presentable!

Several guys when presented with that rifle to use, had the look of horror! The Leupold scope is silver around every edge and dented in several places! The Pacific research stock is worn in like an old cutting board.

It is however, very accurate and proven as you know. That rifle spent almost a whole year leaning against a stack of crab traps in SE Alaska 50 yards from the ocean. It was in such bad shape from rusty orange growth and moss in the scope and stock, I thought it was a total loss. So did the guy that found it.

Of course we all thought it fell overboard and was lost forever on the Zodiak trip back to the house boat we were hunting from. Nobody more surprised then I to hear it had been found the next year!

Thankfully it is stainless and cleaned back up perfectly. As you know, it harvested everything you shot at!