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Howdy, I bought several original boxes of WTC 7mm bullets in 160-170 and 180 gr weights at a gun show in Spokane a few years ago and would like to know the real history of them. There were a few in a loose bag and a note in there that says "Hand made 2 diameter bullet. San Quentin Prison 1938" As I'm going to be 60 this fall and grew up on a cattle ranch (400 pair & still own) in NE WA St. I have been reading gun mags. since I could and shot G. squirrels ect. since I was 5 and have most of my information on these bullets from Uncle's Hagel/Keith/Anabel ect. Is there anywhere/who has the real skinny on the history of these bullets? Having reloaded since about 9 or so I have been a bullet collector I try to use something different on game (other than gophers in Agusta MT. who get it all from Beeman R1 to 340 Wby. every year). WT last fall was w/a Yellow box 140 NPT from my 93 Mauser 7x57 I got in high school at maybe 30 feet. The label on the WTC box in hand is as follows" Cal .276 (7m/m) MAG./ 170g GR., OP, DIA.284/ WESTERN TOOL & COPPER WKS." To those of you who are complaining about a lack of components, 2 things I learned in about 1969 when we couldn't get 22 ammo or primers (lotsa Surp 4831 & was 50 cents per pound) in the Viet Nam war is that you DIDN'T PANIC and buy everything in sight and to simply operate in moderation mode cause how much do you really NEED? (the operative word), AND I learned the first time! I have been more than fine for the last several cycles. STILL please support the shooting sports industries BUT THINK ABOUT YOUR FELLOW/SISTER SHOOTERS. Anyway this is way long and I apologize for my grammar/sentence structure/punctuation ect. to the pro's.-Colville P.S. Mule Deer, I have a double spiced batch of your wife's "Pepper Sticks" jerky recipe (WT) in the dehydrator as I type (but can't spell), to take Albacore fishing on the 30th. Via Con Dios-Muddy

Please don't be afraid of paragraph breaks.

Hi Muddy,

I have one box of WTCW bullets too, 180 .30's in pretty nice condition, but I don't know anything more about them than I've read in books by people like Keith and O'Connor. Jack O'Connor wrote that the RUMOR was they were made by prison labor, but didn't know for sure. I kind of doubt it.

I've spent sometime looking into WTCW and so far have hit a dead end. Anyone who wrote about the company was very careful not to say anything much at all about them other than what they made.

One thing that started my search was they only used a PO box and never a psychical address.

I have several price list, catalogs and company letters and even they are not signed with full names, there was a V. Clark and A. Martin both who I have not found anything on.

Were they made in prison? At this point I would not be surprised if they were.

Hi Mike,

Yeah, my one box of the bullets has this ink-stamped on the outside:

WESTERN TOOL & COPPER WORKS
CAL. .30-'06
172 GR. C.P.

And that's it--not even a town and state, much less a post office box!

Phil Sharpe wrote four paragraphs about WT&C Works on p.45 of the Supplement to his Complete Guide to Handloading. It's not clear when his notes on the firm were written; there are copyright dates of 1949, 1952, and 1953 for the Supplement.

The PO Box address was in Oakland, CA, and Sharpe mentions "Mr. Colton, of the firm", as his contact. Bullets being made at the time of writing, whenever that was, included 87- and 100-grain .257, and 150- and 172-grain .308.

--Bob

WT&CW got started sooner than most of us would expect. I noticed a small ad in the classified section of OUTERS BOOK magazine for one of the months in 1916. I have also heard that they were headquartered in a prison and this would explain a few things.

I have about half a box (47 count) of these bullets in .30 cal., 172 grain spitzer soft point boat tail. I bought these sometime in the 60's. They are in a yellow box with an orange label and black lettering.

According to the information on this box they were manufactured by CURRY BULLET CO., 4504 E. Washington Blvd, Los Angeles 22, California.

Perhaps this confuses the issue a bit more.

M Bell

Thanks to all (yes a para brk would have been appt!) I have shot some and they were not like Nosler BT's but fine for most everything. It's to bad I only get to shoot 1 deer per year cause as the say "So many bullets only 1 deer". This year I friend gave me some of his old 6mm Rem loaded ammo so I could make 7x57 cases from and they were loaded w/85gr Zipedo's. I shot those bullets in the late 70's in my HVA 243 and they were lightning on deer. the only 6mm I have now is a straight 6mm/Swift and I might very well use the pulled ones this fall. As I said before, I like bullets of every kind!-Muddy

One deer per year? Where are you Muddy?