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Again, this is not a reply to anyone in particular.
I am an ex-bowhunter. I had to put down the bow in 2007 after 25 years of hunting whitetail due to a bum shoulder. I probably could have had it rehabilitated and I might have gone on with a bow, but I found out a lot of things after I put the bow down.
For one thing, I stopped spending as much money on hunting. Bowhunting was a very cargo-intensive way to take deer. Second was time. I started having free time in the fall. I could be a lot more sociable. I still spent about the same amount of time in the field-- still saw a lot of deer, but the heat was off. I was happier.
Yes, bowhunting is more challenging. However, you have to look at where that challenge is. You have to practice more. You have to spend more money on equipment. However, did that make me more of a hunter? Nowadays I spend September and October scouting and squirrel hunting with my sons. I hold off shooting anything until November's rifle season, and then I go fill the freezer with my rifle. My commitment to the sport is as great or greater. The thrill is still there.
Back when I was primarily a bowhunter, I'd hunt Ohio's shotgun season or Kentucky's rifle season and have lots of fun. Same trees, same stands, the only difference was what I was holding in my hand. The deer still came right up to the ladder. The biggest deer of my hunting career were taken all taken within thirty yards-- some with a bow, some with a rifle.
Only now that I've put down the bow am I starting to really concentrate on hunting on the ground. Yes, I now have a luxury box. I use it when its pouring down rain. Yes, I'm now stretching out my shots to 150 yards on occasion. If anything, I'm widening my experience.
My point in writing this is that I spent close to half my life hunting with a bow, and now that I'm past it, I'm just as happy or happier. For all that has been written in the past 200 years about hunting, you would think that it ain't really hunting unless you suffer. As a dedicated bow hunter, I did my share of suffering. Cold, misery, riding a broken stand to the ground, or coming-to at the end of my safety belt-- it's all there. Most of it all had nothing to do with my relationship to the game or my overall success. I don't regret my years with a bow, and a certainly won't repent a moment of it. I just don't think it was somehow "better" than what I'm doing now with a rifle.
One other thought and then I gotta go. Most of my big deer have been taken up close. I've taken some deer as close as inside 5 yards with a bow, and even closer with a rifle. I love it up-close and personal. However, I can fully relate to a fellow that works at taking an animal at long distance. My one worry in all this is that if I started preparing for DXing, I'd never really get the deer to cooperate. I've been out at my luxury box with the sandbag on the window sill and had deer come up and stick their head in the window. Now what?
For all the work I'd have to go through to get ready for even a 500 yard shot, I could just as easily spend that time scouting. Come season, I could have my 35 Whelen all dialed in to take a shot into the next county, or I could have spent the same time, found a new trail and be sitting on a bucket and nail a nice one inside 10 yards. My choice is to do the latter.
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Rost, you do know that there are studies that conclude the wounding rate for archery is 1.5 times that if fire arms? There was also an article several years ago in Bowhunter mag that suggested the rate was more like for every deer recovered one was not.
Last edited by BWalker; 07/31/13.
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Campfire Oracle
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You must not bowhunt? I'll play your game.
The challenge is the same, the rewards are much greater.
So goes it with limitations on any weapons, or restrictions. That's part of this whole thread that people today will miss.
Sad really for those that don't know the difference.
I bowhunt. As already asked, why are the rewards MUCH greater? Typical bow hunter answers go something like this: You have to get closer with a bow. (one can limited themselves to 25 yard shots with a rifle, assuming one has any self control) There is more movement with a bow, so deer are more likely to spook (ok, I'll wave my arms around a bit before I shoot one with a rifle) Shooting a bow is more difficult than a rifle (once one has mastered whatever weapon they are using, they have mastered it) Of course the shooting part isn't a question of hunting, it's a question of shooting. So again, what part of bow hunting offers you more challenge than a rifle? Is that you don't have a clue where the arrow is going every time? Knowing that you will likely wound more deer with a bow, that makes it challenging? Wounding/losing game = CHALLENGE? Caveat, I did not read every post. But why would you not have a clue where EVERY arrow is going EVERY time? Any more so than any other weapon? Missed it again Jeff. What is the challenge that bow hunting offers that rifle hunting doesn't is the question at hand. I was asking if not knowing where every arrow was going is it. So, what is the challenge, since obviously shooting isn't the challenge betwixt the two.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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In my home area early bow season is the easiest tine of the year to hunt. Much less activity in the woods amd as a result the bucks are less nocturnal.
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You must not bowhunt? I'll play your game.
The challenge is the same, the rewards are much greater.
So goes it with limitations on any weapons, or restrictions. That's part of this whole thread that people today will miss.
Sad really for those that don't know the difference.
I bowhunt. As already asked, why are the rewards MUCH greater? Typical bow hunter answers go something like this: You have to get closer with a bow. (one can limited themselves to 25 yard shots with a rifle, assuming one has any self control) There is more movement with a bow, so deer are more likely to spook (ok, I'll wave my arms around a bit before I shoot one with a rifle) Shooting a bow is more difficult than a rifle (once one has mastered whatever weapon they are using, they have mastered it) Of course the shooting part isn't a question of hunting, it's a question of shooting. So again, what part of bow hunting offers you more challenge than a rifle? Is that you don't have a clue where the arrow is going every time? Knowing that you will likely wound more deer with a bow, that makes it challenging? Wounding/losing game = CHALLENGE? Caveat, I did not read every post. But why would you not have a clue where EVERY arrow is going EVERY time? Any more so than any other weapon? Missed it again Jeff. What is the challenge that bow hunting offers that rifle hunting doesn't is the question at hand. I was asking if not knowing where every arrow was going is it. So, what is the challenge, since obviously shooting isn't the challenge betwixt the two. Any bowhunter that says they know where every arrow ia going is either ignorant or dishonest. As I mentioned above deer easily move at the release of the arrow and before the arrow strikes them.
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Campfire Tracker
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Mine too....and more foliage to conceal the hunter, movement, etc. I love the bow vs. gun argument. As a woods (typically not open fields) hunter, most deer I shoot with a rifle are within bow range....and I kill a couple every year with a bow too.
The movement to draw issue is always the first rebuttal off the tongue. I've yet to meet a rifle hunter that keeps his rifle shouldered at all times -- wether on the ground or in a tree. You gotta move to shoot a rifle too!
Last edited by shortactionsmoker; 07/31/13.
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Rost, you do know that there are studies that conclude the wounding rate for archery is 1.5 times that if fire arms? There was also an article several years ago in Bowhunter mag that suggested the rate was more like for every deer recovered one was not.
Like I said, evident then that I hang with a group of folks with way above average archery skills then. And if you are TRULY worried about wounding/loss, then you can't tell me there are less than 1.5 more gun hunters than bow... odds are simply going to lean that way. What makes it right to wound because you are using a gun? Never said bow or gun or anything else was perfect.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Oracle
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Hell, most of the time I have to chamber a round, shoulder and shoot deer. As I've said, I could just wave my hands around a little also if that helps bowhunters sleep at night.
So the challenge ain't the movement, it ain't the distance, so what is the challenge the bow hunting offers that rifle don't?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You must not bowhunt? I'll play your game.
The challenge is the same, the rewards are much greater.
So goes it with limitations on any weapons, or restrictions. That's part of this whole thread that people today will miss.
Sad really for those that don't know the difference.
I bowhunt. As already asked, why are the rewards MUCH greater? Typical bow hunter answers go something like this: You have to get closer with a bow. (one can limited themselves to 25 yard shots with a rifle, assuming one has any self control) There is more movement with a bow, so deer are more likely to spook (ok, I'll wave my arms around a bit before I shoot one with a rifle) Shooting a bow is more difficult than a rifle (once one has mastered whatever weapon they are using, they have mastered it) Of course the shooting part isn't a question of hunting, it's a question of shooting. So again, what part of bow hunting offers you more challenge than a rifle? Is that you don't have a clue where the arrow is going every time? Knowing that you will likely wound more deer with a bow, that makes it challenging? Wounding/losing game = CHALLENGE? Caveat, I did not read every post. But why would you not have a clue where EVERY arrow is going EVERY time? Any more so than any other weapon? Missed it again Jeff. What is the challenge that bow hunting offers that rifle hunting doesn't is the question at hand. I was asking if not knowing where every arrow was going is it. So, what is the challenge, since obviously shooting isn't the challenge betwixt the two. As I said, I did not read the complete thread. For me the challenge and rewards that are offered by use of any weapon are the same. In so many words. Some of the challenges can be different, more or less practice, limited ranges, different seasons etc... but the rewards are the same, at least to me, I have as much satisfaction from one harvest to the next, regardless of weapon of choice or "score" for those that go there. I take a LOT more antlerless than antlered, thats what needs to be done where we hunt anyway. Sorry for jumping in. Shooting is shooting and whether its me trying to spear a pig, you with your 45-70, whomever with a 338 Lapua and anyone in between. Its still all shooting.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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...
Those that know anything about archery know there are very few non found fatal wounds out there. My hunting buddy has arrowed several deer but recovered none. He has shot some and elk, too, and recovered them all. Sample of one, admittedly. If everyone was forced to use bows I suspect slob hunters would still be slob hunters, those that don't practice with their rifles would not practice with their bows, poor shots would remain poor shots and large numbers of animals would still be lost. An archer can do everything right and still wound game by virtue if the fact that game animals can jump the string, even at vlose ranges. This has been proven with slow speed film. As such I think your statement alluding to slob hunters losing archery shot game isnt accurate. Most all bow hunters lose game sooner or latter. Not knocking bow hunters in general and recognize some are very, very good. But like all endeavors, some not so much. I don't like slob rifle hunters, either. Or slobbish people in general.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Old time buffalo hunters with their big Sharps were surely "high tech" hunters (shooters) of their day.
Surely technology has changed, not so much the application. They were meat and market hunters, doing a job to support railroads, logging and other enterprises, like the U.S Army. Technology accommodating demand, not too unlike today.
Hunters and hunting has changed a bunch over the decades. Technology is again accommodating demand. Thank God for our freedom to pursue our sport as we see fit.
Indignant condescension of fellow hunters is counter productive, even if their sport isn't our sport. As long as laws aren't broken, so be it. If things get too out of hand, be sure that laws and regulations will step in to tell us what we can and can't do. Until then, laissez les bons temps rouler!
IMHO,
DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 07/31/13.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So the challenge ain't the movement, it ain't the distance, so what is the challenge the bow hunting offers that rifle don't?
As far as distance or the challenge of getting within range, if someone tells you it's the same with rifle and bow, one of two things is happening. They're either BSing about their archery skills or they're not very good with a rifle. Or maybe both. The challenges of archery are mostly in getting close undetected. Chances of getting winded at 250 yards are not the same as 25. Or seen. Not everyone chambers a round just before the shot, and even if they did, drawing and aiming an arrow is a lot more movement. Then there's shot selection, a good bowhunter will pass on most everything but a standing broadside shot with a high percentage of a double lung hit. I should add, I don't bowhunt very much, I use a muzzleloader because it gives me the best odds of killing an elk in my state. Better than a general season rifle tag. 100 yard archery kills? How many here have done that?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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I don't get the "if it's legal, it's fine with me" argument.
It's perfectly legal to have 26 kids by as many different mothers. Perfectly legal to eat a Big Mac for every meal and balloon up to 600 lbs. A person is within their rights to do these things. Doesn't make it right.
But hey, this is America. Do whatever the [bleep] you want, as long as it doesn't affect me, right?
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Old time buffalo hunters with their big Sharps were surely "high tech" hunters (shooters) of their day.
Surely technology has changed, not so much the application. They were meat and market hunters, doing a job to support railroads, logging and other enterprises, like the U.S Army. Technology accommodating demand, not too unlike today.
Hunters and hunting has changed a bunch over the decades. Technology is again accommodating demand. Thank God for our freedom to pursue our sport as we see fit.
Indignant condescension of fellow hunters is counter productive, even if their sport isn't our sport. As long as laws aren't broken, so be it. If things get too out of hand, be sure that laws and regulations will step in to tell us what we can and can't do. Until then, laissez les bons temps rouler!
IMHO,
DF Well stated sir. I do not let the hunting ethics police bother me. I enjoy being a truck hunting long range meat gatherer, they can keep their trophies, and their feelings of superiority just because they wear buckskin undies. I have shot animals from straight under my stand with a bow, to near contact wounds with buckshot and out to a mile, it is all hunting to me, just different styles.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I don't get the "if it's legal, it's fine with me" argument.
It's perfectly legal to have 26 kids by as many different mothers. Perfectly legal to eat a Big Mac for every meal and balloon up to 600 lbs. A person is within their rights to do these things. Doesn't make it right.
But hey, this is America. Do whatever the [bleep] you want, as long as it doesn't affect me, right? Didn't say it was ideal, just the way the hammer falls...  Say, 26 kids and on the dole...  You're talking some serious bucks...  Could buy a lotta powder and primers...  DF
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I don't get the "if it's legal, it's fine with me" argument.
It's perfectly legal to have 26 kids by as many different mothers. Perfectly legal to eat a Big Mac for every meal and balloon up to 600 lbs. A person is within their rights to do these things. Doesn't make it right.
But hey, this is America. Do whatever the [bleep] you want, as long as it doesn't affect me, right? So long as they can support those 26 kids, and can pay their own medical bills for the obesity, your damn skippy it is within their rights.
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Very well said and I couldn't agree more. Thanks for posting.
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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So the challenge ain't the movement, it ain't the distance, so what is the challenge the bow hunting offers that rifle don't?
As far as distance or the challenge of getting within range, if someone tells you it's the same with rifle and bow, one of two things is happening. They're either BSing about their archery skills or they're not very good with a rifle. Or maybe both. The challenges of archery are mostly in getting close undetected. Chances of getting winded at 250 yards are not the same as 25. Or seen. Not everyone chambers a round just before the shot, and even if they did, drawing and aiming an arrow is a lot more movement. Then there's shot selection, a good bowhunter will pass on most everything but a standing broadside shot with a high percentage of a double lung hit. I should add, I don't bowhunt very much, I use a muzzleloader because it gives me the best odds of killing an elk in my state. Better than a general season rifle tag. 100 yard archery kills? How many here have done that? AGAIN A person can chose to not shoot a critter within self imposed distances if so inclined. I can opt to not shoot a critter past 30 yards with a rifle. So why is bowhunting more challenging? I can opt to swing my arms around before shooting if that helps to even the slate. Fact is, most bow hunters I'm aware of are perched in a tree, I ain't. I've still hunted to within 20 feet of deer I've shot with a rifle before The only B&C critter I've ever killed was shot at 25 yards, whilst still hunting, with a rifle. It wasn't a bow though so it wasn't nearly as challenging. I turkey hunt, where legal, with a rifle at times. I like rifles. I have never shot a turkey past 30 or so steps with a rifle, because I want to call them in close. Apparently using the rifle is less of a challenge when turkey hunting to. If I made the same 30 yard shot with a swarm of pellets it would be more challenging? There ain't a GOD DAMNED thing more challenging about bow hunting then there is about rifle hunting. Hunting is hunting and shooting is shooting. Eventually one becomes the other.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Rost, you do know that there are studies that conclude the wounding rate for archery is 1.5 times that if fire arms? There was also an article several years ago in Bowhunter mag that suggested the rate was more like for every deer recovered one was not.
Like I said, evident then that I hang with a group of folks with way above average archery skills then. And if you are TRULY worried about wounding/loss, then you can't tell me there are less than 1.5 more gun hunters than bow... odds are simply going to lean that way. What makes it right to wound because you are using a gun? Never said bow or gun or anything else was perfect. The issue is archery hunters wound game needlessly at a much higher rate than rifle hunters.. Get that into your thick skull.
Last edited by BWalker; 07/31/13.
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No that's not the issue at all. You totally missed it. It has nothing to do with bow vs. rifle.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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