Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Historical info?

Is there any credible/accepted historical or more recent data re what was considered the average effective range for accuracy & killing power of KY/Pennsylvania rifles around the time of the American Revolution? Hawken rifles in the next century? What was considered a realistic long shot with these rifles, also with smooth bore muskets?

Did percussion caps make a significant difference in potential accuracy over flint because of reduced lock time?

Thanks.

Ive read several times that historical documents the British navy personnel wrote during the revolutionary war mentioned that ships should not be docked closer that an absolute minimum of 300 yards from any shore as that was sure to induce sniping and chances of being killed was high

I know from using it that that my 58 caliber hawken replica with its 42" barrel has no problem hitting a beer can size target off a decent rest at 200 yards or a bit more at least 50%-70% of the time on the first shot, Ive certainly kill deer and hogs at that range occasionally, using a patched round ball over a 95 grain charge of black powder

now I will mention I use a tang site


The Battle of King's Mountain in 1780, another decisive victory, was won by rifle-toting backwoodsmen. These heroes were quickly gathered together from the neighboring southern Appalachians. At the close of the war, a British captain wrote in effect that the Americans had riflemen who could hit a man anywhere they liked at 200 paces. He suggested that at King's Mountain the mountain men whipped the British troops.

The long rifle is said by modern experts to have a range of 80 to 100 yards. This figure is meant for the average user. A trained, experienced shooter who knows how to take variables into account such as (gunpowder) load, windage, drop, etc. can easily extend the median range of the long rifle to 200-300 yards. In 1778 at the siege of Boonesborough, Kentucky, one of the officers of the combined British/Shawnee assault force was hiding behind a tree. He stuck his head out from behind the tree and was instantly killed by a ball to the forehead fired by Daniel Boone, who was known for always firing the same fixed measure load of black powder in his rifle. This shot was later confirmed by witnesses on both sides and the distance measured at 250 yards. Hitting a target so precisely at that range would probably make the "Kentucky" rifle comparable in total effective (long) range with the British Baker rifle at 300 to 400 yards.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_rifle

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=363

http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/longrifle.html

This is one of those endless discussions. You might want to join: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php? At the end of the day you will probably just need to shoot at range until you decide.

of course cap lock increased the accuracy simply due to the fact they were a hell of a lot more reliable. A flintlock the "experts" say will fire 7 out of 10 times on a perfect day. Add rain, snow, sleet, into that mixture and we'll see about that.

Yes, a flintlock can be made to fire fast, but i am not going to believe its faster or more accuracy than a caplock, especially in a hunting position.

I would have at one time picked the percussion rifle, but after may years of hunting,shooting and doing extended backcountry trips with a flintlock I will take the flintlock first. My percussion has sat in the gun locker for many years.
One thing to consider is if all your caps got wet, then you are out of business. Also, flint or chert is located all over the US and can be made to work in a flintlock rifle. The internal breech of a percussion is also enclosed and difficult to get into, while a flintlocks pan can be raised giving you access to the internal area to clean and dry easily.
I prefer a flintlock rifle and mine a extremely accurate.

The so called "experts" that claim a flintlock will only fire 7 out of 10 attempts are full of sh6t! Given a well tuned lock and a trained rifleman, the flinter is reliable, with very fast ignition and can be extremely accurate.

I would agree this is a endless subject that�s full of speculation , rumor and opinions..
For information on much of anything concerning documental history . You would be better to look to the ALF , TMA or any number of historical knowledge based sites where people spend mass amount of times researching and can give references to the writings by page number .

When it comes to distance / range . From what I have read there is documentation of shots being taken from 200-450 yards and hitting their marks on a regular base . But one must remember that these were trained rifleman ., people who in most cases had been shooting their inter lives .

The Battle of Kings hill was mentioned . I don�t recall reading of any long range shots at kings hill . Doesn�t mean there isn�t . just means I have not read about them .
Imo the battle is a rather interesting example of what happens when a government starts to tread to heavily on simple country folks .
One hand you have Major Ferguson . The man who invented the Ferguson rifle and was said to have had a clear and easy shot at rather close range on General Washington rather early on in the revolution . However chose not to take that shot because Washington had turned his back .

Then you have the mountain folk or what is sometimes referred to as the Over the mountain people . In so many words frontiersman , farmers and any number of other people who were living on what was at that time pretty much the frontier ..
These people until Kings mountain , had pretty much stayed clear of the fighting until Tarleton
Gave no quarter at � I think it was � Monck�s Corner. .
that�s where we get the words Tarletons Quarter , which means no quarter , IE kill everyone .
Because the militia at that engagement was made of a large number of Over the mountain people , the consern was that this are was about to enter into the war on the side of the patriots . Which prior to that the south had a large support of Tories. In so many words ,Ferguson issues a proclamation that if these people did not stay clear of the fighting he would takes his troops over the mountains and teach them a lesson they would not soon forget .
Ferguson soon was shown the error of his thinking when he was pushed to the top of kings hill , where he and his troops were killed under the cries of ; Tarletons Quarter !!!!!
The battle ended up breaking the back of the Kings Tories ( Government supporters/ kings suporters ) in the south.
many of which ended up slipping eather up into Canada or just stuffing a sock in it .
that�s just a generalization of what happened . Its very much a very interesting battle to study . Frankly a subject that our current government and their supporters might want to think about before things get pushed so far that history repeats itself .


these wouldn�t be the same experts who claim a smooth bore cannot hit a barn door consistently at 15 yards would it , LOL
On top of what Long hunter stated .
a Flintlock IMO is far more consistent and reliable then a cap lock. the reason behind that is that the shooter is capable of inspecting every inch of the ignition system . not so with a cap lock .
the shooter however has to have experience in maintaining that system so as to make it reliable .
with a cap lock , your also relying on someone else , IE the cap manufacture , to insure that even if the complete ignition channel is clear , that you even get ignition ..

but from my experience concerning shooting and hunting with flintlocks . if i do my part , the rifle will go off 10 times out of 10 on both a good day and a bad day .
if it fails , it does so because i failed , not the ignition system .
i also dont believe a cap lock is more accurate in the hands of an experienced shooter .
Now in the case of an in experienced shooter , ya , I think a cap lock probably initially is more accurate . But only initially

When it comes to accuracy between the long rifle and the later shorter plains rifles .
Those later rifles also have some recorded very capabilities that are still being attested to today . So I don�t think one can really side one way or another without taking the rifle out of its time period and comparing them . Myself I think they would probably stay pretty darn close

I think General Simon Fraser might want to weigh in on how far one of those guns can hit and kill.

They are as accurate as your eyes are, and reliability with a well tuned lock and sharp flint are no issue. I have tuned chambers silers, and a Stan hollenbaugh custom tuned lh Armstrong lock that are flawless. Keep the touch hole clear and good powder in the pan(right amount) and there is no percievable delay. My rear sight are behind the balance point which give me a very long sight radius which helps even further, plus my longrifles may be longer than hawken style, but are lighter and balance way better with swamped barrels. I have a swamped octagon smoothrifle that I have no problem putting .640 roundballs( .66 or 16 guage bore) in 3" groups at 85 yards.

+1