Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting 35 Whelen and 286 Gr RNs

No luck getting decent groups. Rem 700 Classic, 22" 1-16 twist. I use to not credit rate of twist as a big deal, until now. I have tried from 32 to 40 grains of 748, 2015, Varget and RE15. The nicest cleanest holes you could ever want but 2-3 inch "groups" at 50 yards. BTW 170gr SAECO TCs are grouping under an inch in this gun with no leading so far...(1950 fps 32 gr/2015)

stick with the other boolits

I have too many of the 286s to give up just yet.

You're rapidly moving from "determined" to "stubborn", aren't you.

Ed

I remembered reading an article years ago about the Lyman 3589 bullet out of the whelen. As I recall the author tried a variety of powders and got the best accuracy with Varget at as I recall somewhere betweee 40 and 44 grains. I don't recall what his barrel twist was.

I did end up trading into one of those molds years ago and tried it in my 350 Rigby with 1-14" barrel. I did manage to shoot a 5 shot 1" group at 100 yds using CCI 200 primers and Varget (as I recall 44gr). Unfortunatley as the temps dropped that load would hangfire. So I tried the same powder charge with CCI 250's, Fed 210's and 215's. The hangfires went away, but the groups opened to 2 to 3 inches at 100 yds.

So if you have a pile of bullets to try, I'd suggest seeing if different primers do the trick and try powder charges just a few grains higher with Varget.

Dedicated.

That article was the force behind this project. AND
There is this bullet caster Lee Stoner, who makes lead jewelry, really, his bullets keep me from casting my own.
Two primers used, WWs for fireform (from necked up Fed 30'06s) Then for second and future hand loads Fed 210s. I failed to chrono the 286s.
My (habitual) bench rest routine involves a front rest, a rear (squeeze) bag and pretty much full recoil on the trigger side shoulder.
The 40 gr of Varget is I fear, just on the cusp of leading the bore.
I was looking to keep recoil under nose bleed level. If I get my left hand death grip on the forend, I am good for about twenty, of these .35s then I am looking for shade. The .35 Classic is a pretty light rifle. The barrel profile is like a 30'06 but take out the steel to make it a 35 and the tube is pretty thin.
I will try Fed 215 primers and stepped up Varget loads next, as that powder fired the smaller of the groups tried. The WWs primers are hotter and the fireform groups are smaller than the formed brass groups, so the primers may well be a factor. A 35 Whelen LEE factory crimp die was in the mail last week!

Anyone know if Cordite is available?

One of these days I need to work up loads for that bullet in my 350 rem mag. I ended up selling the Rigby, too heavy. The Ruger might be the opposite issue with the 1-12 twist, but we'll see. I still have several hundred of the bullets I cast up years ago. I keep debating selling the mold as they are in such demand, but figure I'll probably never luck into another one so am holding on to it.

Are you using a Luman M die to bell the case? I like to use a bridge reamer on my case mouths for a nice gentle transition when seating cast bullets. As I recall I did not crimp the bullets. Also make sure you seat the bullets so the gas check is in the neck of the case. My experience has been if you seat the gas check in the body of the case, the accuracy goes South in a hurry.

Keep at it, it's always good to have one of those frustrating, er ah challenging loading projects.

I use 40 -42 grains of H4895 with that bullet. Both of my 1/14 Whelens' stabilize the bullet and 5 shot groups are typically about 1"-1.25". I don't harden these bullets and they are basically W/W metal and 2% Sn. C-red lube, sized .360, sometimes .359 and I haven't determined an advantage for either size as yet.

Softer does seem better as I've tried them water dropped and air cooled, air cooled shoots best.

YES, Lyman M die prepped brass indeed. The Redding seat/crimp die set to crimp only deformed the brass so that chambering was difficult. The first series were tested without crimps. I now have a LEE FC die and the dummies chamber quite nicely. I had to seat the bullets deep. The driving band is almost flush with the case mouth, again chambering difficulties if the driving band is far off the case mouth. The deep seating locates the gas check down in the neck, I HOPE that are not falling off into the case! The gas checks are tight on the bases but still just hanging on down there. The experts say this is a non-issue, but the old timers thought it was a bad idea. I may have accurate make a 250 grain version with a shorter shank to keep the gas check in the neck and to crimp over the driving band. That should fix the slow twist and questionable gas check condition. As always no substitute for empty powder cans and shot up targets. Thanks.

Is your gas check in the case neck, or down in the shoulder of the case?

Gas check reaches base of the neck but is contained in the neck I've been using Hornady and later, Gator checks and they both are held firmly crimped to the bullet. I don't crimp the case mouth onto the bullet at all, simply remove the flare. Have had no problems with bullet creep or ignition. If you are concerned about the gas check falling into the case you might consider developing loads with slow burners like 4831 topped off with small amounts of PSB shot buffer to keep the check compressed between full case load and the bullet. Enough PSB to reach just above the shoulder neck junction and seating the bullet compresses the load. Requires careful load development procedures with starting loads for similar weight jacketed bullets for the powder being used often being about right.

Since 99 % of Whelens are custom made the thoughtful ones with a quicker twist, maybe they are throated longer too. My Classic is a 1 1/4 inch gun with any old bullet or suitable powder. It is a screamer with 225 Sierras! It clusters 170 to 180s (any) into nickel size groups at 50 yards at 1900-2000 fps (deer and grouse loads). That said, I think the throat is on the short/steep end of the spectrum. Those big round nosed bullets just stare at me. I may need professional help.

I don't understand the mechanism, but my experience with a variety of chamberings and calibers is when the gas check is on the body of the case top accuracy is not possible. This includes rounds where the gas check is very firmly crimped onto the bullet.

Best bet would be to come up with a design that has the gas check flush with the base of the neck and the nose sized for your case. Live with whatever weight it ends up being. Mountain Molds online bullet designer is a pretty sleek way to look at different bullet designs and I've alwasy been pleased with the molds he's made for me.

458Lott: I have also seen fellows post that accuracy experience. With a PSB barrier I have seen no decline in accuracy. My experience with having to deep seat a cast bullet is mainly with the 300 Savage with it's short neck using the RCBS30-180FNGC bullet. Accuracy was good. Secondarily, I used PSB over Re19 with a long heavy bullet for a 348 Win. model 71. That actually gave me the best accuracy I ever obtained with that rifle using any type of bullet. Although I had 4, M71's over the years none of them provided stellar accuracy and I soon moved them along. Still have half a dozen moulds for the calibre and may one day try a different platform, possibly a Ruger #1 with custom barrel to see if it might shoot better. The throats in my Whelens' allow me to use 3589 with no deep seating.

Bill had pretty good accuracy with 2 cast loads in my Rem 7600 35 Whelen 1 in 16 twist I believe. 205 Gr GC Flat Point


IMR 4227 25 Gr 1500 FPS 205 Cast GC FP
AA 2520 50 Gr 205 Cast GC FP 32" 100 yards

Tried same loads in my 35 Whelen Improved bolt rifle and needs
more powder. Been several years just going off reloading notes.
Stay dry!

There they lie, just looking at me with their big shiny round noses.

Bill what do you have for med burn, powders?

Tried 748, RL15 and Varget and best luck with AA2015 (not a medium burn like RL7 or 4198) it is great with 180 gr Cast @1950 fps nickel size groups at 50 yards no leading.