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But dang it man, lighten up. We are all in this together. Unfortunately, we're not. Neither side has compromised at all. And quite frankly, id be surprised if either ever do. I know im not ready. Im hoping things get sorted out in the courtroom quickly. One way or another, lets get this chapter over with.
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yobuck,
The video said approximately 4000 Deer were taken with DMAP permits. You probably don't believe it. You were told the Pa Deer kill last year was around 300,000. You probably don't believe it. All 4000 didn't come off of DCNR controlled land. You probably don't believe it.
I happen to believe there are enough good people in the GC that they would bring out any lies if they see excessive corruption. You don't believe that either obviously.
As far as your condemnation of the condition of the country, if you are in your 60s like myself, let me give you a heads up. It happened on our watch. But you probably don't believe that either.
Last edited by battue; 08/29/13.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Campfire Ranger
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On the Sunday hunting deal: is there the option of a ballot referendum back there? Get enough signatures on a petition and have the voters decide.
Some good and bad can come from that process though. Here in Oregon we can hunt/fish on Sundays, but the voters took away hound hunting and baiting for big cats and bear.
1Minute
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I'm damn glad they did away with no Sunday hunting here in NY many years ago. I'm also damn happy they changed the rifle opener from Monday to Saturday. Makes it a helluvalot easier on those of us who work for a living to get out hunting. They can stick their damned antler restriction up their collective azzes however. There have always been some big bucks roaming NY {I killed a 195 lb. dressed, 137 incher way back in 1981} and if anybody wants to kill one today they can get off their dead, lazy azz and go find one. It isn't of any interest to me to give up my freedom of choice as to what buck I shoot to provide trophy bucks under every damn bush for the lazy and incompetent. The only thing that makes a buck a "trophy" is rarity anyway so the more you make, the less they're worth.
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Ok fellow fire members.
I just received a PM from someone who knows DaleK on a first name basis and politely informed me he is a pretty good guy and a standup member of the Pa hunting community. Said he is definitely old school, but he has shared a camp with him and respects him greatly. He doesn't always agree with him, but respects him.
The PM was from a long term fire member who from his posts I respect.
Dale, if I was a little too hard on you I apologise. But dang it man, lighten up. We are all in this together. I'll have to thank him. And so far I consider this to be a gentlemanly discussion. I knew what I was getting into when I waded into this fight. PM inbound on invites. But shooting clubs/ranges aren't the same as hunting. And yeah, my proposal is about what I want, just like you are advocating all sundays, all seasons which is what you want. But no one seems to like my compromise, that must mean it's the middle ground. To me, compromise means somebody has everything (darn little sunday hunting) and somebody else wants everything (all seasons, all sundays but especially deer). My 'solution' (and I did say earlier that it was in a perfect world  ) means nobody is completely happy but the pro sunday folks get some (40 or so of 52) additional Sundays and anti sunday folks still keep most of the quiet they now have. Yes, grouse is generally quiet. I just lumped all small game together to avoid micromanaging seasons (ie. no dove in Montco but grouse in Somerset). My idea could be tweaked. Posting the land open wouldn't have to involve a bunch of signs like no trespassing does. One or two signs at the main access point to the property with landowner contact information would be fine. Why should private landowners who don't want to be bothered have to post their land against Sundays? The statement 'Private land is considered closed unless specifically posted open for Sunday hunting' seems pretty clear and easy to follow. I belong (voting member) to Farm Bureau. It's actually a somewhat contentious issue there too as some counties are in favor but so far the 'opposed' outnumber them. FB members own a lot of property, much of it is enrolled in PGC access programs. So when FB members say 'we'll post it all', it does deserve consideration. I think part of Farm Bureau's opposition stems from not knowing what the PGC would approve if the legislature simply said 'set the seasons'. If the approving legislation was more specific, there might be less opposition. But I could be wrong on that. Hell, I belong to a sportsmen's club in Clearfield County, not all of those guys are in favor of Sundays either. Dale
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I haven't hunted PA in quite a few years but have to say the no Sunday hunting thing is still a mystery to me.
It makes no sense at all? Why don't ya close it on Wednesday? or any other day?
Oh well....
Dale- I have a lot of family around Somerset. Pop grew up on S. Kimberly, still have aunts, uncles and a few of cousins around.
Hunted grouse, squirrel and deer every year down past Berlin at the hunting cabin growing up.
Fond memories.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Dale
Most definitely shooting clubs and ranges can be different than hunting. Especially when it comes to shooting and making noise. Buffer Creek in Berlin held the State Sporting clay shoot this year. It was a four day event. T-F-S-Sun. 250 participants, and each shoot a minimum of 200 targets on Saturday and Sunday alone. On those two days a minimum of 50,000 12Gauge shells were fired. The entire four days probably doubled that. Absolutely no Sunday hunting scenario would even come remotely close.
Now that was an exceptional weekend, but it is not rare for either place to run 50 to 100 shooters through each Saturday and Sunday, with every shooter shooting close to or over 100 shells. And yes there are times I wonder if the neighbors don't get a little fed up with us.
However again, no sunday hunting situation could come close to equaling the shooting that goes on at those two clubs in your area. They are not rare. We have them across the entire State of Pa and many are just as active or even more so. Shooting is shooting. From a noise perspective it makes no difference if it originates from hunting or a club. And it is another reason why we must hang together.
Seven Springs, again fairly close to you may run a couple hundred shooters through most every weekend and it is not rare for them to do the same during a corporate event during the week. Most definitely hunting clubs and shooting ranges shoot way more on average than any hunting situation, yet for the most part they exist peacefully with their neighbors. Of course many of them have to contend with those one or two individuals who are a constant thorn.
Your compromise still gives me way to little wiggle room to climb in and sign on. You want me, then you're going to have to open up. She may be worth 8 pigs, but I just can't afford that many.
Last edited by battue; 08/29/13.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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yobuck,
The video said approximately 4000 Deer were taken with DMAP permits. You probably don't believe it. You were told the Pa Deer kill last year was around 300,000. You probably don't believe it. All 4000 didn't come off of DCNR controlled land. You probably don't believe it.
I happen to believe there are enough good people in the GC that they would bring out any lies if they see excessive corruption. You don't believe that either obviously.
As far as your condemnation of the condition of the country, if you are in your 60s like myself, let me give you a heads up. It happened on our watch. But you probably don't believe that either.
actualy im in my 79th year. and i dont feel any of this happened on any watch i was a part of.
let me give you a heads up. the dept. of energy was created in the 70s under nixon to investigate
ways of lessening our dependence on arab oil. now 40 plus years later their are over 20.000 employees
counting the days till retirment. hows it working for us so far? are we still dependent on arab oil?
thats but one department.
get your mind off the numbers of dmap deer claimed if you can and answer my question as to why
there are any? again, who is in charge of deer managment? the pgc or the dcnr? no i dont believe
their numbers and neither do many other clear thinking people i know. the dcnr has the game commission
in their cross hairs and thats something you probably dont believe. have you ever been stopped by a uniformed
dcnr employee during buck season? well i have and im not talking about someone working as a deputy warden.
what the hell right do they have to be out and about during deer season checking on hunters? i lived in bucks co
for over 60 years. i know all about deer numbers there and other populated counties in that part of the state. used to be people lived there and went elsewhere to hunt. now it pays to stay home. especially if you are an archer.
come to the sinnemahoning sportsmans club which has over 5000 members. or the mosquito creek sportsmans club which is larger. come during the fall when the places will be busy with hunters. make an announcment as to your opinions and see how well you are received.
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Hell, I belong to a sportsmen's club in Clearfield County, not all of those guys are in favor of Sundays either.
Dale
I belong to a sportsman's club in Armstrong Co. The vast majority of the members oppose Sunday hunting. A lot of our members are farmers (maybe FB members, I don't know) and/or landowners. Consensus there also runs "we post it all". It's a slippery slope, I think. Maybe a case of "watch what you wish for because you just might get it" for the pro-Sunday hunting crowd. The majority of guys hunt on land they do not own. Private land access is rapidly drying up statewide already.
Wollen nicht krank dein feind. Planen es.
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Not to take away from this fine sunday hunting debate  , but one particular regarding antler restrictions that may need looked at, and quickly if conditions mandate, is CWD. I live in the heart of the affected area. The very premise of antler restrictions, gaining age, can potentially wreak havoc in a CWD area. AR by design give us one more year an infected animal can spread the disease, and as you all know once infected, prions can last just under 20 years. We know Dept of AG hasnt treated the outbreak the way it should have, and continue to make questionable decisions to this day in the affected area. Say the area expands. Say another area, on a much grander scale breaks out. Is the PGC, or for that matter hunters in general, ready to accept that AR's may need to be dropped temporarily, or permanently, to gain a foothold in stopping the spread of this disease?
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That's a lot of shooting! But it was 4 days, then it was over. Everyone stayed in one place, there weren't any cows out in the pasture to maybe get hit, and the competitors did not leave their shells laying around.
Early dove season (my biggest but not only gripe) lasts a month and there are folks shooting every legal day. I had to worry about the cattle and fences on 6 days, one worry free day was nice. Try taking a Sunday afternoon nap on the porch when every dove gets 3 shots. You can't. Or someone showing up at suppertime to ask if he could hunt. Nice that they asked but their timing sucked. That's the reality of being a farmer who permits hunting by the public. That's why I suggest private land be closed unless posted open. You deal with them asking one day a week, I'll continue to do it the other six.
I grew up on farm that was (and still is) enrolled in the PGC Farm Game project. We are willing to share our land but like to have one day when we don't. I'm even willing to share that one day with a few relatively quiet hunters. But not hordes.
Hunters only see it from the few hours or couple of days they are out there. Landowners (especially farmers) are there 24/7/365.
The other thing is that farmers often keep the Sunday workload down so they can spend time with their families. Or go visiting. They don't want to be interrupted or get a call that the cows are out because some hunter shorted the fence so he could retrieve his game.
You do realize, if they hunt, they are under the same restrictions as you and I.
Frankly, I don't see Farm Bureau not opposing a bill to create a 'carte blanche' expansion for a long time. A bill that spells out limited expansion may fly, I don't know.
But I do know that when a politically active organized group that owns lots of land (much of which is in public access programs) says "We'll post", that gets the attention of legislators.
Didn't Ohio ease into with only public land first? Why can't we do that here? Why does every supporter of Sunday hunting want it all right now?
Dale
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Not to take away from this fine sunday hunting debate , but one particular regarding antler restrictions that may need looked at, and quickly if conditions mandate, is CWD. <snip> Is the PGC, or for that matter hunters in general, ready to accept that AR's may need to be dropped temporarily, or permanently, to gain a foothold in stopping the spread of this disease? Suits me, I think the AR did the job they needed to, now it is time for them to go away. Dale
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not to take away from this fine sunday hunting debate , but one particular regarding antler restrictions that may need looked at, and quickly if conditions mandate, is CWD. I live in the heart of the affected area. The very premise of antler restrictions, gaining age, can potentially wreak havoc in a CWD area. AR by design give us one more year an infected animal can spread the disease, and as you all know once infected, prions can last just under 20 years. We know Dept of AG hasnt treated the outbreak the way it should have, and continue to make questionable decisions to this day in the affected area. Say the area expands. Say another area, on a much grander scale breaks out. Is the PGC, or for that matter hunters in general, ready to accept that AR's may need to be dropped temporarily, or permanently, to gain a foothold in stopping the spread of this disease? CWD is a direct result of AR's? Bwahahahah! Well if you are going to use that logic, why not just kill them all? Problem solved...no more CWD.
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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CWD is a direct result of AR's?
Bwahahahah!
If thats what you took from that, you need to get back on your meds.
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Suits me, I think the AR did the job they needed to, now it is time for them to go away.
Dale
Agreed. No need for them when hunter and deer numbers are at current levels.
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But I do know that when a politically active organized group that owns lots of land (much of which is in public access programs) says "We'll post", that gets the attention of legislators.
They ain't going to post their property cause they are the same guys crying that the deer are destroying their crops. It's a hollow threat. They are bluffing. They are all in with nothing. The reason 90% of these guys are in the public access program isn't because they are great guys and care about Pa deer hunting or Pa deer hunters. The deer are pests, hooved rats if you will that are hitting them where it count...in the wallet. When push comes to shove they aren't going to let the deer run them over and cost them thousands or 10's of thousand or in some case 100's of thousand of dollars because the state opens Sunday hunting. They talk tough cause they want to control access, but the ones that are in the public access programs can flat out not afford to kick everybody out. They'll go broke and they know it. In my line of work as a Pa certified crop advisor, I talk to Pa farmers all day every day. The number one bitch I hear everyday, outside of the weather, is that the deer are killing them.
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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Ok, at 79 I agree your generation gets a pass on most of the problems we currently have with Government. At least there is something we agree on.  No sense that we keep going over what we don't.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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And they can remedy that with leasing. Farmers have zero need to keep land open to the public to keep deer numbers in check.
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CWD is a direct result of AR's?
Bwahahahah!
If thats what you took from that, you need to get back on your meds. "The very premise of antler restrictions, gaining age, can potentially wreak havoc in a CWD area." You said that, not me. So we should kill all the big deer to improve our CWD situation, when in fact in Pa. we really don't even have a situation? Cause if we only had little bucks and fawns running around CWD would just go away. You...are crackin me up. Suggesting that I need medication...doesn't look so good for you. So this is my last post of on this subject as many of you will be glad to hear. I had a college professor that told me once that "Knowledge and intelligence is no match for ignorance".
Last edited by 99guy; 08/29/13.
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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And they can remedy that with leasing. Farmers have zero need to keep land open to the public to keep deer numbers in check. Yeah actually they do, it's called liability. Cause as soon as you accept money to give access, in the eyes of the law, you also accept liability. Edit: My bad, I said I was done.
Last edited by 99guy; 08/29/13.
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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