Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is Ruger killing the 300 & 338 RCM's?

30 T/C is where it's at.



Travis

We are overlooking the economy as a factor. New gun sales went through the roof, but mostly for tactical guns. We don,t have much disposable income and we are using it to prepare for civil war.

The talk about the 260 Rem is interesting.

Its funny that on the 30-06 case and 7x57 case we have commercial versions of 6mm, 257 cal, and 7mm based on both cases.

There's no 264/6.5 version of either of these cases. Ok I know there is the 6.5x57 but its pretty obscure other than being chambered in Euro rifles. I guess I should be pulled up on that one.

My point being; the 260 kinda, sorta, y'know, DID fill a niche in that there wasn't a 308 or 30-06 (or 7x57 Mauser either if you'll grant me a little license) commercial variant based around a 264 cal bullet. There wasn't even a 257 or 277 version on the 308 case.

I imagine that's where the marketers thought they might be on a winner when devising the commercial launch of the 260 Rem.

Maybe most people looked at the 260 Rem and thought "it doesn't do anything the 6.5 Swede can't do, what's the big deal?" They're probably right too I suppose.

I think I have expressed myself pretty clumsily. But what I am saying is that I think there probably existed one of the strongest cases when they debated introducing the 260 Rem. I would have thought it made more sense than coming in with a 270-08 which a lot of people still scream for.

264 comes in pretty neatly between 243 and 284.

Anyway buggered if I know why some cartridges do well and some not. There seem to be lots of target rounds that overlap too. Maybe the field is just way too crowded.

Sorry for the confusing post (now I have read it back)!

Wasn't the RCM rifle also available in 308 Win? I'm almost positive I saw that listed on the website. Think I saw one in a store too. Now that would have made a nice rifle! Anyone got one of these?

I have not read, I believe, the above but do know that as a user of the 338-06 for 20 years on elk, grizzly and others that it would be the last rifle to go. This from an avid elder of the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62, the latter taken to Africa in 2002. Mine, a simple LaBounty rebore on a M700 270 Wally World special for $300. A couple of truck loads have fallen to this dime-a-dozen rifle.

bobnob,

You overlooked a fairly popular cartridge commonly known as the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, though it wasn't exclusively designed for either Sweden or Mausers. It isn't based on the 7x57 case but it's close enough to work in any rifle suitable for the 7x57, and does anything the .260 will do.

All these years I'd been laboring under the apparent misapprehension, that one needed a magnum so the first shot would neatly halve whatever the targeted game animal was?

Who realized magazine capacity was also an issue? ;O)

MD pretty much covered the silliness of the past several decades and some of the cartridge/rifle combos that've hit the market (and then faded away).

That occurs to me each time I walk into a gun shop and see a table with "last year's" innovations marked down below retail. One time it was Rem. UMs at fire sale prices. Then assorted shortmags from various manufacturers. Haven't seen any lately, which is either good or bad, depending on one's perspective.

But somewhere there lurks a marketing genius that will eventually stumble onto the next, great thing to inflict us with.

I'm pretty much a skinflint, so have been spared the agony of "keeping up". Have nothing more powerful or exotic, than some 30-06s. A few of which are older than I am. All still kill chit dead, which in my case is deer.

The little stuff ranges from rifles in 22LR, to the wee centerfires in Hornet, 222 and 223. Close enough. Still recall the day some years ago, when I entered a favorite shop and a guy waved a 204 cartidge at me, insisted this was the shape of things to come. Asked him what it was good for, that I didn't already have covered before he was out of diapers? He put it down and let me be.

The RCM's where doomed because they didnt exceed the performance of the WSM's. Intern the WSM's are ultimatly doomed because they cant match the HP of existing rounds.

The only two meaningful improvements I can see since 1960 are:

1. Better bullets.

2. Tighter manufacturing tolerances, which means better accuracy.

Pretty much how I see it? If they want to conjure up "new" things and someone else gets excited enough to buy into them, more power to 'em.

I get more het up over improvements in components and manufactured ammo, which I believe is much better than it was when I started down this road over 50 years ago. Pretty hard not to find something that suits you these days?

Do like some of the efforts such as the M7 and other handy things, but don't really need any of them at the moment. Glad they're there for anyone that wants them.

Nice dissertation John... you're mostly right.

You failed to cover the point that a fairly large portion of the public who actually hunt already have a gun they like just fine, and the hunting public is sadly but slowly shrinking every year. Loyalties to chambering have been built over generations and run deep. The majority of folks shoot whitetails from a concealed or elevated fixed position, don't walk much, and should be able to do anything that needs doing with a 30-30 or 30-06. The majority of western hunters I see in the field do a large portion of their hunting within eyesight of a road, since they rarely leave the saddle of their quad or side by side unless they've already spotted game. Packability of a rifle matters not to them, and high velocity rounds with hubble sized scopes and long heavy tubes happen to make them feel better.

I guess I fail the "Real Loonie" litmus test. Though I have owned and hunted many of the long action and magnum offerings, I've long since grown tired of getting the dogschitt knocked out of me when I pull the trigger, and really don't care to pack a long action or tube longer than 20-22" to the places I hunt. I don't own dozens of rifles, I do care about versatility, and own less than a half dozen centerfire chamberings, and really only use three of them.

I guess I'm not a real 260 fan either, since I simply bang away with mine, regularly, and can't fathom a valid argument against many other rounds that basically do the same thing. I simply like mine. With 4 hunters in the house, we do own more than one 260, and use them for the vast majority of our family's hunting and shooting, and as a whole happen to be more than satisfied with the results obtained. The only thing it does that a 6.5x55 won't, is fit in a short action.

Successfully expanding product availability and demand in an ever shrinking market would require some sheer marketing genius. Yet the market doesn't actually need to need your product, they just need to think they do. That is the job of marketing... to convince a target market of just that without anyone figuring out the BS too quickly.

Nice freakin' bear, BTW.

This has been a good thread that's gone somewhere I wouldn't have expected. Some great discussions.


Mule Deer thanks for your counterpoint, I actually didn't overlook the 6.5x55 though. I did mention it in the post as comparing favourably with the 260.

Like I said in the post, I think I made my point a little clumsily but thanks for your thoughts.

JB, I agree w Mcoleman.
Second, I could be very happy if I were forced to use a 7x57 or 6.5x55 the rest of my life for all game, if in a quality rifle, properly scoped, and with a lifetime supply of quality brass and bullets.

I suppose Lapua Brass and 140 6.5/160 7mm Nosler Partitions might scale back the SKU's

Wait, I like the trimmer package in a short action w/near same same ballistics...such defines me as a Loony I suppose

Life sure would be boring if the only thing I had were a 30/06 or 308, though one could likely do far worse. Just so you know, it pains me to say that, b/c they are great all around - rounds, just enjoy the lesser recoil of 6-7mm's that kill fine for me w/shot placement. No doubt, I think the large big game hunters are full of options in 30 and 338. I applaud the industry in investing in new products, but they should poll the public to find needs and wants. Ruger was listening to folks as directed by upper management the last time I was at a Shot Show - that was the year they were bringing out the RCMs, and when Hornady was doing the 30TC. They were likely attempting to jump on a misperceived trend, that was more a short lived fad.

Re: the 260 - it's a great round in many ways, and I won't argue JB, the Creedmoor is a better design. But that said, Big Green had an opportunity that they failed to capitalize. Over on another forum the 260 is all the rage and many 308 fans have made the switch. Instead of having a Heavy barrel option for those shooters, all Big Green offers is the 223 and 308 in many rifles. The 223 is smaller than I want for most of what I do, and the 308 larger. So there is a void - no 6mm or 6.5mm for a strong growing trend of shooters who want to punch paper, steel, varmints and deer near and far with minimal recoil, flat trajectory, and good accuracy/shootability. I never am ceased to be amazed at the blunders of such a large company. Perhaps once shooters ran the company, now it's bean counters. The 6BR and 22BR had alot of opportunity, as others, but they dropped the ball. Oh well, it keeps the gunsmiths fed.

Short and Fat was in vogue, but reliable feeding is an issue, as is ammo stocking.

Members on here are of a different breed than 95% or so of the gun buying hunting rifle public. I also think that the majority of the people who ultimately make these decisions never hunted a day in their life!

True, but the knowledge allows more informed shooters to enjoy the benefits that comes with it. They also play a factor in trends.

Well, here I am again late to the party. I've got a .338 RCM and I hunt with it and like it a lot. BUT, I've also got .22 Hornet, .223, .22-250, .250-3000, 6.5x55, .270, .280, 7mm Rem Mag, .308, .30-06, .300 Win Mag, .303 Brit, .375 H&H and .45-70 rifles that I use at least somewhat regularly and some more not so regularly. The .338 RCM doesn't kill deer any quicker than any of the others from the .250-3000 and on up, but I really like the fact that it's lighter, more compact, handier, and easier to carry in thick cover than many of the other rifles, plus it packs the punch to easily and confidently handle elk and large hogs or bear, and I can shoot it well.

It might be a dead cartridge, but I'll probably hang onto it just because I'm a loony and sometimes like to have something a little different.

Here it is and the 330 lb northern Missouri 10 pt buck I took with it last year. The buck was 7 1/2 years old - past his prime, gray faced, pot bellied, and sway backed (same as the hunter). The scope is a Burris FF II 2x7.

Us rifle loonies often benifit from these flops. When they close them out you can often get a good deal on one. I have a cdl whelen I got a deal on and also remember picking up 700 bdl ss rifles in the saum chamberings new for about $400.

I have several boxes of 338 rcm brass rat holed so I'll probably keep mine for a while but the more I hunt the more I realize that the killing power between most cartridges from 260 to 35 whelen isn't that much different. I do like my rcm stainless because its a rugged handy little setup but if they made the same rifle in 308 I would be just as happy with it.

The looney side of me would like to see a 6.5 rcm based off the shorter 338 rcm case not the 300. When it flopped I'd pick one up for $400.

I do think a line of cartridges based off the the full length 375 ruger would be a good thing. I had a 7 lrm and really like the way it fit a rem long action.

Bb

Nice picture taking of that grand old buck. What a deer!

[quote=
The looney side of me would like to see a 6.5 rcm based off the shorter 338 rcm case not the 300.
[/quote]

Burleyboy,
I like the way you think. If I can attach the image I can show you a 6.5x338 RCM compared with the 6.5 Rem mag and the 6.5-284(Sorry, no photobucket). These cartridges essentially are kissing cousins as to performance. The 6.5 RCM, unlike the 6.5-284 or the 6.5 Rem mag, can fit the 140's into a short action magazine and feeds flawlessly. Both the form and subsequent function will remain appealing. Regarding the 338 RCM itself, I found it to be a great round. Like you, I have stock piled 338 rcm brass and not really concerned regarding the commercial success. I built my RCM's on the Rem 700 and a Stiller predator not that I dislike Rugers but only because of being more familiar with the 700's. In addition, with the extended magazines, you can really seat the bullet out there. If that makes me a rifle loony, so be it, but I'm having fun.

I'm primarily a lurker on this site and enjoy the diverse points of view for enlightenment. With that said, I hope I'm not out of line when I state a preemptive GFY for deflave in the event that he may following this post.

MVC