Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Why the US Needs Some Form of Universal Healthcare Insurance

We all ready have a model that works for health care in the USA. As far as I know there's no problems, complaints by providers or customers and the freakin' gov't has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It's totally market driven. You can buy insurance if you want, pay cash if you want or make payments if the Dr. will allow. It's about 1/4 (or less) the cost of normal health care and probably 5 times better.

Veterinary system.

No, it is not. We are born, live and die. Healthcare may prolong the living, but will never suspend the final outcome. Individuals may pursue activities which shorten their lives, it is not my responsibility to compensate anyone for their stupidity.

this thread should be entitled " Why libtards need a [bleep] punt"

No one in his right mind could argue that the government could or should try to run any effective civil system - the overly expensive fecklessness in such government run programs has been demonstrated time and time again. As for the "universal" aspect, there is no universal program of any type that equally and effectively serves all of the people in this country - so "universal health care" is a non-sequitur.

I like the what has been offered by Ed, Denton and others, and the recent posts by ol_skool and Digital Dan are reminders about the reality of our situation.

In my experience of 70 years ago and a bit later, none of these issues about medical care existed to any significant degree. People went to the Dr. when they really needed to do so (the Dr. even came to them at times) and they went to the hospital when they really needed to do so. The bills got paid - yes, there was some sensible "charity" where called for - and even a modestly poor family like ours was able to make it work financially and without any insurance, even with a bunch of kids. People took very few "pills" - very few were available, and the old, basic penecillin was fairly new - and somehow folks all dealt with their cholesterol, blood pressure, erectile dysfunction, cramps, psoriasis, obesity and odd moods without daily doses of drugs.

Yes, the diagnosis, care and treatment sometimes were elemental compared to what we know in 2013, some people suffered and all died at a normal rate, but we worried or argued little or none about "health care".

Science has marched forward, the profit motive has grown, insurance businesses have thrived and our own self-centered expectations and quests for a solution and cure for every pain, illness, injury, dysfunction and ugliness have led us to the point where some dare claim that "every person has a RIGHT to first-class health care, regardless of the cost or the payer". That statement alone is evidence of a serious dysfunctional sickness among us.

No complaints - my family and I have nice lives, but I do not think that the quality of our daily lives is any better than what I knew as a kid, and sometimes today's quality seems lesser. So, what's all the fuss about health care - what are we trying to accomplish or prove?

In spite of all of the medical progress and current sophistication, people still get sick, have pain, suffer - and die at a normal rate (100%) - they just do it a bit later than they did 70 years ago. It simply costs more and takes longer to suffer and die these days. And, as a result of all the above, some actually believe that I should pay the medical bills of others. Of my own volition I have done that at times, and may do so again, but how can any politician or libtard generate the chutzpah to make such an assertion?

For me, in the light of reality, the "universal health care" ploy is ridiculous, and Obamacre is laid bare as a crass political tool.

The problem with this debate is that no one asks the right questions. Everyone endlessly debates schemes on how to pay for healthcare, but no one asks why healthcare in the U.S. costs what it does. Why is a hospital room $5000 a night, intensive care $10,000, a penicillin shot $200, etc.? Is it those greedy doctors and overpaid nurses? Not really, they aren't paid that much in the big scheme of things. So why do these medical services cost what they do? I know the hospital will bill $15,000 for an outpatient surgery and insurance will cut it down to $500, but why the song and dance? Why not just charge a reasonable rate that isn't subject to all the shenanigans? It can't cost $5000 a day to provide a hospital room. In it's essence it's just a hotel room with a nurse that checks on you about four times a day and some cheap crappy food thrown in. It might cost them $5 more to clean it since they have to use more chemicals, and the bed costs a bit more since it moves, but it's not that much different than the $80 Hampton inn room you stayed in a few nights before. The charge for the room is all out of proportion to reality, it just doesn't cost anything near that to provide it. Same with the drugs, $200 for a penicillin shot is absurd, there's about $1 worth of medicine in there.

The answer to why this stuff costs so much is in the bureaucracy that's built up to run the health care industry. Everybody's taking their skim cut off the top, from the lawyers that constantly sue hospitals and doctors to the insurance companies and every other support entity out there that's taking it's cut. For every doctor and nurse treating patients there's probably 20 support staff all sucking at the teats of this giant cash cow that the healthcare industry has turned into. At the top of this pyramid are a few people that are running the show and getting very, very rich off of it.

Spot on. And I would add they just do it a bit later than they did 386 years ago - 6-years later to be exact.

The average US male life expectancy as of 2010 is about 76. I do a lot of family genealogy. Taking a look at my male ancestors from the US:

8th great grandfather, born 1626 � age at death � 69
7th great grandfather, born 1661 -age at death � 83
6th great grandfather, born 1704 - age at death � 69
5th great grandfather, born 1751 - age at death � 84
4th great grandfather, born 1774 - age at death � 60
3rd great grandfather, born 1804 - age at death � 68
2ndh great grandfather, born 1835 - age at death � 66
1st great grandfather, born 1878 - age at death � 70
Grandfather, born 1905 - age at death � 60

Average age at death of my male ancestors for the last 386-years: 70

Keep gov't out of the equation....everything they touch gets F---'d Up. Create a business climate that makes it easier for new H/C and insurance companies to form and provide greater competition.( ex.= Public schools are failing, because they have a monopoly....no reason to improve). Go to a system that forces one to choose the most cost efficient method like health savings accounts.
We are BANKRUPT, This is a FACT....so we are we giving free health care to 20 million more people?...and IT will end up being free....don't let the BS hide this FACT!
What is immoral is sticking our heads up our ass thinking that we can keep give free stuff away and not suffer SEVERE consequences.
It's going to hit the fan ....sooner rather than later.

"The answer to why this stuff costs so much is in the bureaucracy that's built up to run the health care industry. Everybody's taking their skim cut off the top, from the lawyers that constantly sue hospitals and doctors to the insurance companies and every other support entity out there that's taking it's cut. For every doctor and nurse treating patients there's probably 20 support staff all sucking at the teats of this giant cash cow that the healthcare industry has turned into. At the top of this pyramid are a few people that are running the show and getting very, very rich off of it."

Exactly Crow Hunter.

The physician cost in the health care pie ranges from 11%-16% of the total. So, there are a ton of other folks making a lot of money from what should be a relationship between you and your physician. When the plumber comes to your house to fix a leak, are there all these layers of bureaucracy between you and him when it is time to pay the bill? Nope. The bill is X and you pay X. Not so in modern medicine.

Rocky, I understand the point you are make. But I can not agree with it.

Those with good insurance pay the lowest rates in the nation for their medical care. As the major carriers have negotiated "fair and reasonable" fees for services.

I recently had cause to pay the ER a three hour visit. They ran an EKG, took a chest X-ray, and took a couple of blood panels looking for heart stress enzymes. All negative, by the way, and that is beside the point.

The point is my bill came to right at $3000 for the three hours. That is before Blue Cross got hold of it. The fees allowed by Blue Cross come to $1400.

If you do not have insurance, the hospital is over charging you by more than 100% based on this example.

Medical insurance should be totally , 100% ILLEGAL. People should only get whatever health care that they can pay for out of their own pocket , after that they can just drop dead. There's too many people on the planet anyway.


Mike

6mm250,

Then if you want to do the planet a favor...you go first.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!

With health care, like anything else, a significant increase in demand will drive costs up. That is why, we need to contain and reduce cost first.
I can think of at least four different ways to reduce those cost without compromising the quality of care.

#1 Tort reform. Anyone that thinks this wouldn�t amount to a drop in the bucket is drinking the Kool-Aid supplied by the trial lawyers association. Malpractice insurance is crippling the industry, and everyone knows it.

#2 Competition. The ability to shop for and buy health care insurance across state lines. There is no question that competition drives costs down and quality up. Competition works, always has, always will.

Those two are easy, the next two are hard.

#3 Controlling and reducing the cost of prescription medication. Because of Food and Drug administration regulations, the cost of bringing a new drug to market in this country is staggering. Often upwards of a hundred million dollars for development, testing and trials to get FDA approval. A new antibiotic that can be manufactured and sold for a profit at $2 a dose might have another $4 or $5 folded into the price to offset the cost of these FDA regulations. We need to find a way to reduce these costs and streamline the process.

#4 Illegal immigration reform.
By reform, I mean build the wall, enact and enforce sever penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. Enact a guest worker program that imposes a tax to help defray the costs associated with a large immigrant population, and a foolproof I.D. system.
Nobody is talking about it. Not Democrats, not Republicans, not the news media but illegal immigrants impose a huge financial burden on medical intuitions. It is against the law in America for an emergence room to turn away anyone in need of treatment, regardless of their ability to pay for that treatment. All over the country, illegal immigrants use hospital and clinic emergence rooms as a source of free medical care. The cost is in the hundreds of millions of dollars WEEKLY. Some of this expense is reimbursed by the government using taxpayer dollars. The rest is passed on the those who have insurance or those who can afford to pay. One way or the other, the American taxpayer is footing the bill.

Dont forget all those people that dont have any insurance at all that get treated for "free" by the hospital.

dave

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nLg4bKslQm8[/video]

And therein lies the problem, a story by the most rabidly pro-obama network. djs give us (and yourself) a break and spare us the socialist agenda. Healthcare would be just FINE is the democraps would "allow"
1. Purchase of health insurance across state lines
2. "A La Carte" purchasing (why do we need to pay for sex change operations and hair transplants?) with personal selection of deductibles and illnesses to cover.
3. Tort reform

It's that's simple. The problem is your party and completely corrupted by the trial lawyers (why does a OBG YN have to pay nearly 250K is malpractice insurance per annum?)

BTW, Insurance companies work with one of the lowest profit MARGINS of any business on the order of 3/4%.

This whole article flies in the face of reality and truth, something you and the rest of the democraps are incapable of living by.

Dave, those high prices are part of a tax scheme, that IMO is really a form of fraud. These "book rates" are intentionally over priced, as evidenced by the fact that insurance companies never pay these rates. So, when the common guy is put into bankruptcy because he's unable to pay these unrealistic rates, the Hospitals can take a tax write off on the inflated portion of the bill. It's really quite criminal.

A S
Im sure that your right about the tax right off game.
But lets say your in business mowing lawns and the feds show up one day and out of the blue tell you that you must mow the lawn on either side of the house that your getting paid for ...for free.You cannot refuse.
So over time you pad the price to help make up for all the free chit, that the law requires you to do.You are after all, in business to make money.
Not awhole lot different than what we have in health care.

jonny has a runney nose but mum just figures its a head cold and gets him some stuff from the drug store.
It does not work very well but its better so mum says ok.And kinda forgets about it.But jonny still has problems and isnt feeling well 4 months later.
Jonnys runny nose has turned into a full blown infection thats turned into brain cancer.
Now instead of getting a quick trip to the doctor for 150 bucks worth of treatment now its going to cost about 1.5 million for fix jonnys runny nose.

Im not sure I know the answer.
I think that there are some things in the AHCA that are good.
But thinking about 2700 pages of the chit that they passed without reading it.And you know that they didnt read it.And making sure that they .... the house and senate are exempt from it.
Pizzed me off to no end.


dave

I immigrated from a socialist country - every need can be simplified by providing free medical care to the retired and elderly on social security and the unemployed who cannot afford it.

The secret is "means testing". No point offering free medical to a well healed individual like Harry Weed or Nancy Politics. Also can be refused to a person already covered on a spousal policy.

It's not hard, but this issue has nothing to do with the stated goals and relies on idiocy and ignorance en mass, for success.

We were warned about this:

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RD02QK3Eo9cScEQ&feature=player_detailpage&v=fRdLpem-AAs[/video]

+1000