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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,160 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,160 Likes: 13 |
Dewey,
I've pushed 250's to 2750 in my .338's, with all the powders you mention plus H4831, but after using the .338 in Africa decided that was pushing the envelope. In Montana in November they worked fine, though then the Reloder powders handloads weren't even getting 2700. I've had the best cold-weather results with H4350 and H4831.
Most published .338 data with tougher 250-grain bullets these days tops out at around 2650. Vihtavuori lists a couple of loads at 2750 or so, but with boattailed cup-and-cores, which have shorter bearing surfaces and are generally "softer" when engraved by the rifling as well. Nosler does list 2780 for the Partition with H4831, the powder I've used in Africa, but it still got a little wonky at temperatures well above 70. (The so-called temperature stable powders are actually just temperature-resistant. Pressures still increase when its warm, though not as much as what might be termed "standard" powders.) As a result, when I returned from that safari I decided to reduce the load somewhat, since 100 fps doesn't really mean much in the field.
My 250-grain handloads in the 9.3x62 have been pressure-tested at right around 60,000 psi, which is .30-06 level, and 4000 psi below the SAAMI average maximum for the .338. Pushing the 9.3 to 64,000 would result in about 2750 fps, but as with the .338 I haven't found any reason to do so in recent years.
I've come to the conclusion that bullet diameter does make a difference on animals larger than deer, especially a diameter of .35 caliber or larger, after having used both the .338 and 9.3x62 considerably in both North America and Africa. The .338 has been used with 200-250 grain Barnes TSX, Hornady Interlock, Nosler Accubond/Ballistic Tip/Partition, Speer Hot-Cor/Grand Slam, and Winchester Fail Safe bullets. The 9.3 has been used with Barnes TSX, Norma Oryx, Nosler AccuBond/Partition and Speer Hot-Cors in weights from 232 to 286 grains.
Penetration has never been a factor with any of the "premium" bullets, despite differences in sectional density. In fact it's only been limited with lighter conventional .338 bullets. The 200-grain Speer Hot-Cor .338 penetrates deeper and holds together much better when loaded to .338-06 velocities, rather than the 3000 or so possible with the .338 Magnum.
Ranges have been from around 50 to 300+ yards with both rounds, and animals have ranged up to well over 1000 pounds. Obviously there'll be some overlap in performance, but overall there's been a noticeable difference in the way the two cartridges affect larger game. On average, animals react more to the impact of the 9.3 bullets, and go down quicker. They react to hits from .338 bullets more like they do to a .300 magnum, and react to 9.3 bullets more like they do to a .375. Or at least that's what I've observed.
Like you, I use a lot of 200-grain bullets in my .300 magnums, where they work great. All of which is why I haven't hunted nearly as much with the .338 since acquiring my 9.3. The .338 doesn't really do anything the .300's can't with 200-210 grain bullets, and doesn't perform quite as well as the 9.3 on larger game with heavier bullets. Don't get me wrong: The .338 is a fine cartridge, and unless I quit hunting m rifle will be here, partly because we've had too many adventures together. But these days I prefer the 9.3, and not just for the performance on game.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,462 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,462 Likes: 2 |
Excellent treatise John, with which I happen to concur based on my more limited experience. Thanks, that was truly worth reading! Bob www.bigbores.ca
"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,324
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,324 |
Ranges have been from around 50 to 300+ yards with both rounds, and animals have ranged up to well over 1000 pounds. Obviously there'll be some overlap in performance, but overall there's been a noticeable difference in the way the two cartridges affect larger game. On average, animals react more to the impact of the 9.3 bullets, and go down quicker. They react to hits from .338 bullets more like they do to a .300 magnum, and react to 9.3 bullets more like they do to a .375. Or at least that's what I've observed.
Two + decades ago I had an encounter with a G-Bear sow and cub, I had a 7mm Rem mag and 175gr Hornaday's loaded up. No damage to either parties but decided to gun up for the next season. In comes the 338WM with 250gr Hornaday's. Shot some B-bears and a few moose with it. Your observation is correct in that the 'on game' performance of the 7mm and 338 appeared to be very similar and the 338 recoiled more and was not as accurate as the 7mm. I had an opportunity to trade the 338 for a 35Whelen. best thing I ever did, 250gr X bullet @2600++, just knocked big animals sideways, up until the 35 I could only count a few animals that fell to the shot and stayed down, the 35 made this a normal occurrence out of 20 moose, lots of B-bears and a few deer. Today I use a 9.3x66 and a 30-06 with 200gr NAB's. The 9.3 compares well with the 375HH in a lighter more user friendly package.
Last edited by Furprick; 10/17/13.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
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I have more to say on this, but, am just out of "surgical daycare" after an internal check for what seemed to be Cancer and am stoned on "Fentanyl"a REALLY potent opiate analgesic, so, will be back with some of my ideas probably Sat. AM, at my usual "old bushman's" rising time of 04:00. HAH, healthy as a horse, sore back for a year is just arthritis and I CAN cope with THAT a phuque of a lot easier than colon cancer or osteosarcoma! I feel like I was 27, not 67 and am now so full of pizz and vinegar that the old lady is in SERIOUS trouble! Later, guys.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,975
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,975 |
My 22" 9.3 X 62 gets right over 2625 FPS with 250 Gr bullets and RL 15. With 286 Gr bullets and RS Big Game 2525 FPS both loads very accurate. With 286 Gr bullets and RL 15 could not exceed 2420 FPS.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2 |
Were I to change I'd opt for the 286 gr. Partition, but I already have many 338 WM's. Nonetheless, it's all good with the 9.3 Gunner Hmmmm, the use of 286 NPs in the 9,3x62 and ownership/use of MANY .338WMs.....obviously, a HIGHLY intelligent and wise man......!!!! Gunner
Trump Won!
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,462 Likes: 2 |
My 22" 9.3 X 62 gets right over 2625 FPS with 250 Gr bullets and RL 15. With 286 Gr bullets and RS Big Game 2525 FPS both loads very accurate. With 286 Gr bullets and RL 15 could not exceed 2420 FPS. I don't think we can get Big Game around here... but I could be mistaken. Anyway, 2550 fps from the 286 NP is easy using RL-17... and that's NOT a top load in my 22.4" T3! But, I won't go there. As regards RL-15: 2460 fps was absolute max from the 286 Hornady and showed more pressure on Hornady cases than the mentioned load for the 286 NP. To say that I'm impressed with the performance of the somewhat small case of the 9.3 X 62 seems like an understatement. Though I would like to see something like a 225 - 230gr AB that could be used on smaller big game, at an MV of about 2800 fps. The 232 Oryx has a poor BC and therefore limited in range. Bob www.bigbores.ca
"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,109 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,109 Likes: 11 |
Were I to change I'd opt for the 286 gr. Partition, but I already have many 338 WM's. Nonetheless, it's all good with the 9.3 Gunner Hmmmm, the use of 286 NPs in the 9,3x62 and ownership/use of MANY .338WMs.....obviously, a HIGHLY intelligent and wise man......!!!! Gunner Kudos to both of you fine and intelligent gents
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,109 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,109 Likes: 11 |
Dewey,
I've pushed 250's to 2750 in my .338's, with all the powders you mention plus H4831, but after using the .338 in Africa decided that was pushing the envelope. In Montana in November they worked fine, though then the Reloder powders handloads weren't even getting 2700. I've had the best cold-weather results with H4350 and H4831.
Most published .338 data with tougher 250-grain bullets these days tops out at around 2650. Vihtavuori lists a couple of loads at 2750 or so, but with boattailed cup-and-cores, which have shorter bearing surfaces and are generally "softer" when engraved by the rifling as well. Nosler does list 2780 for the Partition with H4831, the powder I've used in Africa, but it still got a little wonky at temperatures well above 70. (The so-called temperature stable powders are actually just temperature-resistant. Pressures still increase when its warm, though not as much as what might be termed "standard" powders.) As a result, when I returned from that safari I decided to reduce the load somewhat, since 100 fps doesn't really mean much in the field.
My 250-grain handloads in the 9.3x62 have been pressure-tested at right around 60,000 psi, which is .30-06 level, and 4000 psi below the SAAMI average maximum for the .338. Pushing the 9.3 to 64,000 would result in about 2750 fps, but as with the .338 I haven't found any reason to do so in recent years.
I've come to the conclusion that bullet diameter does make a difference on animals larger than deer, especially a diameter of .35 caliber or larger, after having used both the .338 and 9.3x62 considerably in both North America and Africa. The .338 has been used with 200-250 grain Barnes TSX, Hornady Interlock, Nosler Accubond/Ballistic Tip/Partition, Speer Hot-Cor/Grand Slam, and Winchester Fail Safe bullets. The 9.3 has been used with Barnes TSX, Norma Oryx, Nosler AccuBond/Partition and Speer Hot-Cors in weights from 232 to 286 grains.
Penetration has never been a factor with any of the "premium" bullets, despite differences in sectional density. In fact it's only been limited with lighter conventional .338 bullets. The 200-grain Speer Hot-Cor .338 penetrates deeper and holds together much better when loaded to .338-06 velocities, rather than the 3000 or so possible with the .338 Magnum.
Ranges have been from around 50 to 300+ yards with both rounds, and animals have ranged up to well over 1000 pounds. Obviously there'll be some overlap in performance, but overall there's been a noticeable difference in the way the two cartridges affect larger game. On average, animals react more to the impact of the 9.3 bullets, and go down quicker. They react to hits from .338 bullets more like they do to a .300 magnum, and react to 9.3 bullets more like they do to a .375. Or at least that's what I've observed.
Like you, I use a lot of 200-grain bullets in my .300 magnums, where they work great. All of which is why I haven't hunted nearly as much with the .338 since acquiring my 9.3. The .338 doesn't really do anything the .300's can't with 200-210 grain bullets, and doesn't perform quite as well as the 9.3 on larger game with heavier bullets. Don't get me wrong: The .338 is a fine cartridge, and unless I quit hunting m rifle will be here, partly because we've had too many adventures together. But these days I prefer the 9.3, and not just for the performance on game.
I've also noticed I haven't been using my 338 win mag as much since getting the 9.3x62mm ..However, the 338 will always be one of my favorites..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,740 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,740 Likes: 3 |
I have been hunting the 338-06 and 35 Whelen regularly for near 20 years and the 9.3x62 for just shy 12 of years on a range of game including elk, moose, the larger African critters, black and grizzly bear and have not noticed any difference in performance. IMO no different than the debate that always rages over the smaller bores (.25-.30's) that all actually kill about the same.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,324
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
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Checked RL-17 in my 9.3x66 Sako, 22.4" barrel. 68grs for 2515fps, been up to 70grs <2600fps but precision suffered. 68gr load is good with the 286gr Hornaday.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,381
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I get 2350 from my Husqvarna M98 in 9.3x62 using 62.5gr of RL15 and magnum primers with 286gr Norma round nose bullets (old ones). Only ever shot one thing with it, a bison, and that was at 35 yards and it worked pretty well given that the bullets were impacting at pretty much muzzle velocity. It's probably my favourite rifle.
"This duty fell upon me and was the worst job I ever had in my life. I have known men I would rather shoot than the worst of dogs."
Frank Wild Second in Command Endurance 1914-1916
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