Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 220 SMK's

I was thinking about putting together a suppressed SBR in 300 Blackout. Who here has used the 220 smk on game at subsonic velocities , and what were the results? Any other heavy bullet recommendations?

Thanks,

W6

Hornady 220gr RN, if you're staying subsonic you don't need the sleek shape of the SMK and the RN will even expand a little.

Supposedly the 220 Mk's tumble when they hit something. I shot a doe with one a couple years ago. Decent blood trail, but the last I saw of her she'd jumped a fence and was running over a hill 200 yards away - on another ranch.

In hindsight, I think I hit her too high. zero'd at 100 they are 4 inches high at 50, which is where I took my shot. You have to be very exacting about your shot placement.

Am I missing something here or is a 220gr nonexpanding bullet at subsonic velocity just a reinvention of the 230gr 45ACP FMJ?

That's a pretty good assessment, UP. I guess the point to a 300 blackout is that you can shoot lighter, supersonic loads on par with a 7.62x39, then simply switch mags and shoot the heavy, subsonic loads when you don't want to make noise. All this from an upper that attaches to an existing AR. To tell the truth, I could live a long, happy life without a suppressed SBR, but since King Barry has decided I can't have one, I now want one.

Anyway, i think its closer to a 220 hard cast from a short-barreled 10mm than a 230 45acp, fwiw.

The key point would be if they tumble or not. Supposedly when the .300 Whisper was developed, that was one of the selling points - that a long tumbling bullet does a lot of damage, even if it does not expand. And the long sleek Matchking has a decent trajectory, even if it starts slow.

If they don't tumble or expand, then any old flat point pistol bullet would probably kill better. I wasn't able to confirm from my trial, if the fault was me, or the bullet.

It would be real interesting if the Brass Fetcher guys would do gelatin tests with subsonic 220 MK's then we might have a more objective test.

I forget who, but some guy a while back was selling heavy 30 cal bullets designed to expand at subsonic speeds, but they were big round noses, and not real attractive, IMO.

in theory based upon what other rounds with similar characteristics have done they should tumble......ought to be pretty easy to find out.....order up some ballistics gel and try it out......if you want to send me your rifle Pat i would be more than happy to do it.....warning testing may take 6 months or so.....to make sure it does so both in the low temps of winter and high temps of summer

Here's 1 gel test:

http://youtu.be/i1Q7xRmZAtk

Not too impressive, but not much hide or bone involved, either.

dammit take that down, your ruining my master plan to get Pats rifle in my hands i shot it down in New Mexico and its a hell of a rifle....

I just can't believe we've gone from use enough gun and the magnum craze to slowing down heavy bullets and hoping...

While I love my suppressor, the 300 BK is a marketing marvel.

nothing has changed....though some of the minor variables have changed there aint a hell of alot in shooting thats totally new

Harry Caldwell, maneating tiger, Savage 99 in 22 High Power....around 1914 i believe in China

Nope, nothing has changed. Seems like someone killed an elephant with a 17 Remington too. Frank Glaicer (sp?) said the 220 swift could've been the best grizzly cartridge he'd ever used.

Don't get me wrong, use whatever you want, I will. I just am amazed at the marketing that was attached to this thing. Everything comes full circle and now we're back to a round ball and black powder performance, interesting.

Local friend in Oregon plays with one on a Stevens Action, but he uses 210 grain Cast bullets out of his... I know of a few deer that got in the way of that combo and didn't make it far, except straight down...

ballistics gel I could eventually figure out. It's the super-high speed video cameras that would be spendy to buy.

Here's the supersonic 300 BLK videos. They are way more impressive than the 220 in the link above.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/300BLACKOUTslowmotionvideo.htm

Of course, the 220 video is with Remington factory 220's, and it's unclear how similar they are to 220 Matchkings. So far I'm unconvinced that tumbling 220's are great killers, or even if they really do reliably tumble

FWIW as well, the handloads you shot in Quemado were all jen-u-eine 220 MK's loaded to mag length, as opposed to 2.08", and they fed & functioned just fine. Shoot better than the factory loads, too.

Somewhere I have some 190gr Lapuas that have the stepped base with core exposed. I am almost tempted to load some backwards...almost...

Hmm, good point. I hadn't thought about it in those terms.

So are black powder and ball loads real quiet too? Who makes good BP uppers? Can you still get 30 rounders for them, and are the followers the same?

I should qualify my original question by saying I'm looking for something that will put an axis deer down quickly and quietly, just outside city limits (where using "enough gun" would result in a lot more drama than the neighbors would appreciate.)

Seafire, I just read your post. Sounds interesting. I know nothing of cast bullets and AR's, though. Does that work? I do seem to recall hearing that heavy cast lead at 800-900 fps kills pretty dead...

there are these, too:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/20...r-238-grain-lead-boat-tail-spitzer-point

Walker, do you know anyone who exclaims the killing power of a ball at higher than subsonic speeds on deer of any kind? Me either now slow it down to subsonic speeds and load it in an AR, how does that make it kill better?

TRW,

Sorry, I wasn't referring back to the ball topic again. I was giving a nod to the .45 Colt as a close range round. I know a subsonic 300 blackout round would be a short range proposition, and I've about resigned myself that using one on deer would mean a head shot from well under 50 yards, I just wanted to see if anyone here had tried em.

on the effectiveness on tumbling bullets for hunting....i believe it was Finn Aagaard that told the story that he and some friends did alot of hunting with 303 SMLE's with a FMJ military load that was designed to tumble once it hit flesh and they thought it was a hell of a hunting round on critters up to the size of zebra and prefered it to alot of the soft point ammo they had access to.....granted in this case the bullets were traveling supersonically but it holds up the theory that a tumbling bullet can make a good hunting round....

tumbling 55s in 223 FMJ bullets, and they tended to buckle and seperate too, have amazed me over the years killing deer and pigs.

I never used em but I"ve watched plenty of stuff shot with them and was continually amazed.

The 300 is not a marketing gimmic, it just shows the stupidity of the masses at times.

Its been around a LONG time, 300 Whisper, and its always done what it was supposed to, well enough.

What gets crazy is when folks start wanting to make it into more than a 100 yard max round. And drive it supersonic for whatever reason, and then expect it to be hollyweird quiet on top of it.

So I guess it could be a gimmic, but it wasn't any more when it came out as the AAC than when it was a whisper years ago. IMHO its a subsonic 50 yard or so heck of a killer, and the suppressor use, which used to be illegal here, will only make it a better thing.

But to kill an axis, quickly, they have a bit of "african" blood in them.... I'd say 300 aac and a CNS only shot at 50 yards or less with a can on. Just my opinion. ANd at that point a 220 SMK will be just fine.

Since I just opened a box of barnes flat nose 150s for the 30-30... I am thinking when I get that far.. sub sonic them, the hollow point is not small, and could very well work out nicely...