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Campfire Outfitter
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I was looking at bullets today and noticed that some of the manufactures recommended a 1-7 twist for even the 65 grain bullet weights? Guess it's a CYA for them?
Yes, 'cause you can't trust barrel makers. I had a Bushmaster stamped 1 in 9 that shot a passable group at 50 with 77 SMK's. At 100 it opened up and you could see elliptical holes in the paper. Others here have posted they have 1 in 9's that shoot 77's fine. I've never heard anyone say that non-VLD bullets under 70gr would not stabilize out of a 1 in 9, but I could be wrong. Next barrel? Get a 1 in 8, IMO. I've got a Montana Barrel 1 in 8 that loves 77's and 50gr HP's. Hard to beat that.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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On sierras website they state the 69 match King will stabilize in barrels as slow as 1-10
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Outfitter
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On sierras website they state the 69 match King will stabilize in barrels as slow as 1-10 I'm pretty certain that is the case.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Member
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.223-Varget, fill the case up with powder, scrape off the excess seat a bullet and be happy. (just kidding)
1. Figure out exactly what you want to do.
2. Pick a bullet best suited for the task.
3. Have fun with any one of about 10 powders that work really well in .223
Finding a bullet your gun likes will be the key. After that any one of several powders will likely work really well.
My own fav is H322. works great for 55 grainers, and up to 75 grain hpbt. And it's one of the extreme powders that works great were I'm at.
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Campfire Outfitter
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.223-Varget, fill the case up with powder, scrape off the excess seat a bullet and be happy. (just kidding)
That actually works really well with 52/53gr bullets. It isn't the velocity champ, but it shoots bugholes out of most rifles.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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That's what I'm planning on. Like I said, to do development I would think you'd have to put a scope on with more power than what I have.
I also think the inherent accuracy of an AR like mine would suck They are inherently accurate guns these days as noted. Don't think, that with a bit of practice and paying attention to a few things, that you can't shoot knots with irons. I've shot half inch 5 shto groups with them off bags at 100. FWIW. Again you have plenty of standard data that would keep most happy on this thread though so you have a start. For the one comment, RE 69s at 500 and beyond.. IMHO the 69s suck in the wind at 300 bad enough already. Much less 500 or 600 where they take 4-5 times the correction of a better bullet in the wind.... But they do take out game good as needed and are fine at 200 and in for my uses. 300 in a pinch. Beyond that I'd never waste the money on them when a 75 ish is around.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Outfitter
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I always thought about building a SBR with a 1-8 twist? 80 grain bullets if you could seat them?, otherwise a good 77 or 75 for close ranges would work for me?
You were correct it will run in 7-10 twists for the 69's! I misread a sierra label.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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80s are not designed to be magazine fed. Single load only.
Use 77s or 75gr Hornady BTHP for mag feed.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well, technically neither are 75 amax. And we know how well those work at mag length.
But take heed, if you are using a bullet not designed for mag length, you better know what you are doing a bit....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Am I the only guy that likes the classic 50-55gr bullets in an AR?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Am I the only guy that likes the classic 50-55gr bullets in an AR? No, I like 'em for drills etc, 'cause they're cheap. For defensive use, they work well also, FMJ's anyway. 77gr SMK's have a well known track record for putting a jihadist's dick in the dirt, quickly. That is what I prefer if you can get them, and nothing is more accurate.
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I shot out to 500 today with M193. It's not the best, but it'll do in a pinch.
TAK or anyone, do you have any idea how those 77s would do on deer? I've got some 75 BTHPs I'd like to punch a lung with this season.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Blue
I've punched a fair number of pigs, javelina and a few deer with 75 bthps.... I keep a few mags loaded with them around the house for such occasions. Have not run a 77 for that but wouldn't hesistate to.
AS
I don't care much for light bullets, anything past 200 yards they get blown around in the wind and so they just don't do as well as others for me. A lot of folks shoot them though. But you'd not catch many that shoot longer distances or in the wind a bit or in competition looking for light bullets. Plus loose half of a 75 and I have almost 40 grains left to penetrate, loose half of a 55 or more which is fairly easy, 20 grains or so ain't much weight left. At least on game.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I had my oldest out today, seems she wants to kill a deer this year. I let her shoot the 77 SMK's at 100 yards for a bit then told her to put the green dot on the right half of the 8" gong at 200 yards, we had some serious wind blowing right to left. First shot was a miss so I said let me try and missed too. Put the ACOG dot dead center and started smashing the plate, she did the same.
Then I tried the 55 TSX's and they hit the edge of the plate but neither the report nor the swing impressed like the 77's.
I've killed a ton of coyotes with the 77's but I didn't want to chance the bullet and left her with the TSX's. They shoot 1" high and 1" left so I made the adjustments and feel confident she can take any shot she wants to take. I wouldn't have an issue using either bullet myself but if she hit a ball joint or heavy bone and lost her first deer, I'd never forgive myself.
Last edited by TWR; 11/17/13.
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Campfire Outfitter
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TAK or anyone, do you have any idea how those 77s would do on deer? I've got some 75 BTHPs I'd like to punch a lung with this season.
I have no idea. I did spend an evening last year looking for a small whitetail doe that had been double-lunged with a 175gr SMK. She covered over 400 yd and had to be shot with a pistol. Don't ask me how but it did not inspire confidence. A friend had something similar the year before with an AMAX. I'd stick to TSX's, 64gr power points, or those 64gr bonded (nosler?) but I'm just repeating what I've read.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I shot out to 500 today with M193. It's not the best, but it'll do in a pinch.
TAK or anyone, do you have any idea how those 77s would do on deer? I've got some 75 BTHPs I'd like to punch a lung with this season. My only wisdom is that a 75 grain "bonded" bullet over 23.5 grains of Varget at 50 or so yards will not smash thru the shoulder, and exit the other side. I have noted lack of exit on larger bullets from larger guns as well, but the 22 produced no blood trail. Last week I put 15 62 TSX into some cases over 26 grains of TAK, fired 4 on Saturday after getting back to camp, scope took 3/4 up and 1/4 to the left and I am back to where I started. I am sure the 77's will kill thru the lungs, but I don't shoot lungs where I hunt. I myself want to try some of the 62 grain TTSX bullets as they might be exactly what I am looking for!
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Campfire Tracker
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Rick,
Use the "System"! Back about June I took possession of my new Sword International Mk 15 AR15. Knowing I was going to go with some kind of dedicated low power optic, I plopped a cheap AR style mount on there and threw in a Vari X III 4.5-14x40 I had sitting around; just for load development. I tried both the Sierra 77 gr MK and 53 gr MK and both IMR 8208 and CFE. I shot everything at about 400 yds, over my 35P and settled on 77/8208 combo. I used the same optic at the Utah State Sniper Shoot, taking 9th OAL, nearly running the carbine courses without a miss. Now, it has my trusted NF 2.5-10x32 on there in an ADM Recon mount and when sighting it in last week, shot groups @ 202 yds that were in the .38 to .5" moa range. Doubt I shot more than 175 rds for load development and sighting in. You know what to do!
Alan
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I had my oldest out today, seems she wants to kill a deer this year. I let her shoot the 77 SMK's at 100 yards for a bit then told her to put the green dot on the right half of the 8" gong at 200 yards, we had some serious wind blowing right to left. First shot was a miss so I said let me try and missed too. Put the ACOG dot dead center and started smashing the plate, she did the same.
Then I tried the 55 TSX's and they hit the edge of the plate but neither the report nor the swing impressed like the 77's.
I've killed a ton of coyotes with the 77's but I didn't want to chance the bullet and left her with the TSX's. They shoot 1" high and 1" left so I made the adjustments and feel confident she can take any shot she wants to take. I wouldn't have an issue using either bullet myself but if she hit a ball joint or heavy bone and lost her first deer, I'd never forgive myself.
Totally understand the thought process. And follow that at times for myslef, when I won't even think of a 223 actually. Barnes is the one bullet I've seen never fail yet. I've seen about every other one fail, at least in my opinion, from every hunting, to about every target. So I don't mind using target bullets. Have a HELL of a streak running with target, not hunting 185 bergers in my 308 bolt gun....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Blue
I've punched a fair number of pigs, javelina and a few deer with 75 bthps.... I keep a few mags loaded with them around the house for such occasions. Have not run a 77 for that but wouldn't hesistate to.
AS
I don't care much for light bullets, anything past 200 yards they get blown around in the wind and so they just don't do as well as others for me. A lot of folks shoot them though. But you'd not catch many that shoot longer distances or in the wind a bit or in competition looking for light bullets. Plus loose half of a 75 and I have almost 40 grains left to penetrate, loose half of a 55 or more which is fairly easy, 20 grains or so ain't much weight left. At least on game. Thanks Roost, that help me understand the different philosophies. I shoot a lot of P-dogs with mine, and the 69gr+ bullets just don't deliver the flip of the 50-55gr bullets. In addition, on P-dogs you want a bullet that disintegrates, and does not retain the weight. For deer etc., I have 60gr Nosler partitions, and the 64gr Nosler bonded solid bases. For your style of shooting I can appreciate why the 77's make sense. Thanks.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Rick,
Use the "System"! Back about June I took possession of my new Sword International Mk 15 AR15. Knowing I was going to go with some kind of dedicated low power optic, I plopped a cheap AR style mount on there and threw in a Vari X III 4.5-14x40 I had sitting around; just for load development. I tried both the Sierra 77 gr MK and 53 gr MK and both IMR 8208 and CFE. I shot everything at about 400 yds, over my 35P and settled on 77/8208 combo. I used the same optic at the Utah State Sniper Shoot, taking 9th OAL, nearly running the carbine courses without a miss. Now, it has my trusted NF 2.5-10x32 on there in an ADM Recon mount and when sighting it in last week, shot groups @ 202 yds that were in the .38 to .5" moa range. Doubt I shot more than 175 rds for load development and sighting in. You know what to do!
Alan Thanks Alan. Finding some powder seems to be the problem. How do you think the 8208 will be with the 69's? I think I know where some is 
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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