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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
Damn, I wish I had an extra $6-$10,000.00 laying around...I don't think I'd buy one of those with it though....I just made my last purchase for a while now. Finally crossed the ones off the list that I really needed 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,966
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,966 |
Damn, I wish I had an extra $6-$10,000.00 laying around...I don't think I'd buy one of those with it though....I just made my last purchase for a while now. Finally crossed the ones off the list that I really needed What, you found a 64 and 65 already? 
Charter Member
Ancient order of the 1895 Winchester
"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes."
szihn
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
Whitebird,
That is an interesting generic box at the top. Along with the pasted on "ALWAYS" sticker.
Congrats on your boxed guns.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,757
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,757 |
I wonder if Teddy Rosevelt and all others who faced the 7x57 in battle thought it was "GAY".
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,253
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,253 |
Thanks mr Whitebird, My MIL bought Mr Rules book for my Christmas present 5-6 years ago, I have spent countless hours reading and rereading, I will look your gun up. We Winchester guys are lucky to have that book, very well done. very best
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
Every winchester model 70 guy needs that book..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
For anyone looking for something to plink with, there's a Super Grade carbine in 250-3000 on (IIRC) Guns International. All yours for $22,000 and change. 
Last edited by BobinNH; 12/08/13.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
I'll be right on that Bob. Thanks!!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739 |
OH, OH, I am not among the exalted ranks of "Winchester guys" as I refused to pay mucho buckos for the excellent tome by Rule.
I have owned only 43 P-64s, over about 47 years and have worn some silver packing them daily while working/living in some of the most remote real wilderness left in North America, but, I am kinda odd, anyway.....
WTF, guys, they are RIFLES, production ones at that and made to USE, not sit in safes and gather the moans and sighs of the "true believers".....
I know a guy here, a former guide and serious gun nut, he has a superb, full custom Mauser by Ralf Martini and it shows a subtle refinish to the knowledgable eye. I mentioned this when he showed me it some time ago at our club range....he just said, "yeah, it has been USED a lot"......it is absolutely gorgeous and my 1937ish Type B, Oberndorf, 9,3x62 is as well, with it's scars from Africa and this country.
My first and beloved Alaskan-.338, bought unfired, new, in January, 1968 shows some use, but, looks BETTER than when I first held it in my trembling 21 year old hands and the retired dealer said, Son, I know your parents, you just take it home and pay me as you can......
So, I guess we all have different concepts of beauty in guns,etc, eh.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
OH, OH, I am not among the exalted ranks of "Winchester guys" as I refused to pay mucho buckos for the excellent tome by Rule.
I have owned only 43 P-64s, over about 47 years and have worn some silver packing them daily while working/living in some of the most remote real wilderness left in North America, but, I am kinda odd, anyway.....
WTF, guys, they are RIFLES, production ones at that and made to USE, not sit in safes and gather the moans and sighs of the "true believers".....
I know a guy here, a former guide and serious gun nut, he has a superb, full custom Mauser by Ralf Martini and it shows a subtle refinish to the knowledgable eye. I mentioned this when he showed me it some time ago at our club range....he just said, "yeah, it has been USED a lot"......it is absolutely gorgeous and my 1937ish Type B, Oberndorf, 9,3x62 is as well, with it's scars from Africa and this country.
My first and beloved Alaskan-.338, bought unfired, new, in January, 1968 shows some use, but, looks BETTER than when I first held it in my trembling 21 year old hands and the retired dealer said, Son, I know your parents, you just take it home and pay me as you can......
So, I guess we all have different concepts of beauty in guns,etc, eh. Guys, we should scrape our money together and buy ol kute a paperback version so he doesn't feel left out
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
WTF, guys, they are RIFLES, production ones at that and made to USE, not sit in safes and gather the moans and sighs of the "true believers".....
YUP!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
I will add that the more rare and higher priced 'pre 64 is, the higher the chance is of a counterfeit rifle. This is not to imply that those offering them for sale are automatically "suspects". Some of these sellers may be unknowningly passing off rifles that have had subtle changes made to them to fit the rarity category. Some of these alterations have gotten very good and hard to detect.
There is a seller who I believe is still in business who has run the longest string of "looks test fired only" ads in the history of gun selling! He either has the keys to some unknown warehouse or he is, well..................let's say pretty optimistic.
All I know is as the price and rarity goes up, your "smell test" must get more intense. If you aren't sure you better have a second opinion - in person. If the seller doesn't offer a 3 day full refund - move on.
If you are looking at a supposed factory "Class X" modification, you almost need an accompanying letter or sales receipt to document it. Sightless or "Gopher Guns" probably do not apply unless you are told it is a genuine "GG" from Gopher Supply in Faribault MN..
Its all fun, but you must protect your investment.
Last edited by bigwhoop; 12/08/13.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
I will add that the more rare and higher priced 'pre 64 is, the higher the chance is of a counterfeit rifle. This is not to imply that those offering them for sale are automatically "suspects". Some of these sellers may be unknowningly passing off rifles that have had subtle changes made to them to fit the rarity category.
There is a seller who I believe is still in business who has run the longest string of "looks test fired only" ads in the history of gun selling! He either has the keys to some unknown warehouse or he is, well..................let's say pretty optimistic.
All I know is as the price and rarity goes up, your "smell test" must get more intense. If you aren't sure you better have a second opinion - in person. If the seller doesn't offer a 3 day full refund - move on.
If you are looking at a supposed factory "Class X" modification, you almost need an accompanying letter or sales receipt to document it. Sightless or "Gopher Guns" probably do not apply unless you are told it is a genuine "GG" from Gopher Supply in Faribault MN..
Its all fun, but you must protect your investment. Good post BW. I won't touch a real rare rifle with a 40 foot stick. I've been told things by some gunsmiths like, "If I can make a counterfeit, anyone can". That told me everything I needed to know!!!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
WTF, guys, they are RIFLES, production ones at that and made to USE, not sit in safes and gather the moans and sighs of the "true believers".....
YUP! Yep, that's why I'm shooting mine just about every weekend. Always on the lookout for an awesome deal too. They are "tools", our hobbies, and some of ours passion...Yet, they are just production rifles and made to be USED!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
WTF, guys, they are RIFLES, production ones at that and made to USE, not sit in safes and gather the moans and sighs of the "true believers".....
YUP! It has to come down to the individuals choice. We can believe that the heart and soul of the rifle wants to be used as intended but who is going to dictate that? Certainly I enjoyed taking my '59 30-06 (97%)on two successful back to back elk hunts (cow & raghorn) but would I do that with a NIB boxed '55 Featherweight? Probablay not. But I will defintely use my half priced estate sale '60 .338WM on my next elk or AK. griz hunt. Some folks invest in coins, art, pottery, cars and firearms. Treasures are in the eye of the beholder. Its all supposed to be fun.
Last edited by bigwhoop; 12/08/13.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
To an intense collector, the act of seeking out the object becomes almost addictive until the item is found. Then the cycle starts all over again. Some search for deals but to others, money is no object. They will pay any price. That will give rise to a lucrative counterfeit market.
As one who has dabbled in the antique world, I know some real sad stories about those whose cherished items have been shown to be altered or repaired. Their greed for "the find" outstripped their need to be cautious.
The Rule and Whitaker books are excellent primers on Winchester history. But the more I read and look, the more I realize what I don't know! Books are great reference tools but unless you have hundreds of rifles pass thru your hands, you still aren't an "expert".
Having said all this, there are undoubtedly some great collections out there that will unleash some excellent pieces. Yes, when those widows sell off all those 'pre 64's, wouldn't you like to be the first one making the bid?
Last edited by bigwhoop; 12/08/13.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739 |
I HAVE had 100s of these rifles pass through my hands, many very rare ones and I would not even consider myself as any form of "expert"; however, I can recall a few incidences where I saved people from buying very good "fakes", back when I still would give assistance to those seeking specific guns. There WERE quite a few of these, especially .338s, in BC, until quite recently, but, most of the older guys have sold theirs into the USA, although it is now very much a hassle to do this. One can STILL find "deals" here, IF, you really DO know what you are doing, but, I have lost interest in getting more of them and most guys now do not seem to care and consider Classics to be "P-64s"....life goes on......
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Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
bigwhoop folks are certainly free to treat the rare one's like collectibles....part of what makes the entire pre 64 market fun....you never know what treasure trove you are going to bump into in the trading, buying etc. Thankfully there are enough garden variety type rifles out there to keep the hunter-shooter types happy for quite awhile if they are so inclined. Thankfully....not everyone loves them....there ain't enough to go around.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 67
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 67 |
What would a shooter grade 7x57 be worth? The reason I ask is a local shop had one. 41 dated barrel (matches reciever date), Barrel cut to carbine lenght (it has a screw holding the front sight ramp on so I'm assuming it's cut) metal finished in a dull black (not sure of the coating but I don't believe it is paint. Someone did a nice job, it has a lyman receiver sght in factory holes, no extra holes but I imagine it's not collector material since it's been modified. I traded a S&W model 28 for it but have never really figured out what it might be worth = shooter grade.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,160 Likes: 14 |
Cut barrel means the collectability went down the toilet. What you have is a "pre war" gun. Barrel stamping doesn't mean much after it's been shortened...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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