Home Forums Gear Horses and ATV's Need help!

Gold F350 Diesel, 4x4 short bed, 4 door -- 6'4" dark hair and mustache.
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<br>Is that the N. Castle Rock exit (just S. of the Outlet exit) or the S. one near the car dealerships?

BTW Tom, thanks for the heads up!

Muley,
<br>If you turn on the one just south of the Outlest, it takes uyou to the out lets back north, Go under the bridge and take the nextt one

Good deal! Hope to make it Thursday...

Sorry guys, I got a cub scout meeting tonite, let me know how it goes, I'll catch you next time.
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I will be spitin in the same bucket as MuleSkinner, cause he hit the nail right on the head. It won't take you long at all to learn those hitches. I am proabely like you to some extent, I don't get a whole lot out of books when it comes to mechanics or rope and wire diagrams. I am a hands on kind of guy.

Ain't no way in gods green earth a diamond can be throwed as quick by one person as a box. Jus' too many additional steps an' ties. Here's a example: with a box, the cinch goes over the load an the packer grabs it under the hosses belly and hooks it, cinches it, an is ready to make both loops around the sides of the onside load. With a diamond, you feed a loop over the load an' onct you hook it, you gotta cinch an adjust to keep the cinch in the right place. Another packer feedin' you the slack from the offside is the best approach. Then, when you get the two top ropes adjusted with the cinch, you gotta feed your live end thru a twisted gap on the top two ropes, thets where the "diamond" comes from. After the loop is made thru the twists, it has to be fed down the sides of the offside load while keepin' the tension on the first side. Once the offside is tied, you can take up the slack an tie off the last side of the onside load (live end). The whole thang needs to have all the slack taken out an' fed all the way around to get proper tension. The box is 'bout a 20 second, one-person toss, an' is jus' as secure if not more, cause you are always holdin' the live end an' keepin' the tension on it. Stick with the trucks down thar in Colorady. Leave the packin' to real mountin men.

First thing , maybe your mind is not open to suggestions, but if you use quick links to run your ropes through, you cut the time considerably and it can be done by one prson. On the other hand, I didn't think it was a race. Maybe the mountain men ought to come to town more often to see how things get improved.

A real mountain man????? Good one! Obviously, a legend in your own mind (grin). Muleskinner, when you take that attitude with someone proven, it just makes you look like an a$$. You need to learn to express differing opinions without being a prick. As we all know, there is more than one way to skin a mule, uhhh, I mean cat.
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<br>"Never say never" and "never say always" are good rules to live by, else you will likely be proven wrong.
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<br>That said, I use Morgan packs which are kind of like shooting an inline ML around traditional shooters. Why? They're easy and secure and they work well for me. Besides, I hardly ever have anyone who has had packing experience with me and just about anyone can figure where the straps go so I'm not stuck doing ALL the saddling and packing myself. I've tied a few diamond hitches and box hitches and have long since forgotten how. Don't really care. Packed enough through the Colorado, Idaho and Alaskan wilderness to be "set" in my simple ways...

I'm not an expert, and never claim to be. I prefer to use the diamond hitch AND the box hitch over the Morgan type rigs because that's the way I learned, and it works for me. Bottom line; if it works for you, use it!
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<br>BUT, if you don't think a diamond can be tied by one person, and fast, that's just because you haven't seen it done! I've seen some old hands, IN COMPETITION, do it so fast it would make your eyes pop! I'm not even in their league.

Bob, I don't think there is any "right" or "wrong" with this. I'd initially learned the diamond hitch, but discovered the Morgan setup just before heading to AK to spend a summer as a guide and bought a couple rigs for the guy I worked for and they were incredibly easy for a novice, not to mention they worked very well. No one up there had even touched a horse, let alone packed one, so I was on my own. NEVER had to retie a load the whole summer, simply add a rock to balance out one that wasn't riding even.
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<br>When the time came to buy my own setup, I didn't know anyone around to "re-learn" how to do it right and found a Morgan setup in WYOMING (funny, huh?) of all places and snatched it up. Haven't looked back since. The couple friends I've packed with who've had some experience had to admit that they were pretty slick setups. BTW, I use mine with a crossbuck saddle rather than a morgan saddle.

I have to admit I have Morgan's in my tack bag...it's the only way to go if one is not tieing hitches everyday.
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<br>Here's an example of how I use to do it...
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When I use to use or occasionally still do , a box pannier, I use the box hitch. Actaully I think people tie it or a variation because you can't hardly screw it up.
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<br>However, with a load that tends to compress, like bags, duffel, tents and such, I find the double diamond lets me get the load tighter and there is less chance of it moving around.
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<br>I started packing back in 65 with an old guy who was 86 then. He had three mini mules that were about as wild as they come. He packed everything in ammo cans to prevent damgae. Packed those mules and turned them lose to buck . I never saw a pack move.
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<br>I will never be as good as that old man, and I have to admit there have been occasions when I had to stop and repack on the trail , but mostly becasue I ddin't have the cincha tight enough and everything rolled..
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<br>When I us ethe diamond, instead of snaking ropes through and such, I tie the top line over to the lash cincha and then back over the top to the start, and tie it off fairly snug. Then I us ethose quick links taht look like carrabiners axcept are kinda pear shaped. Take the double rope that wa stied to the lash cincha, take two left over rights on both sides, Snap a quick link into each one and then snap the rope as it comes up from the bottom of each side of the pack. Those quick links act just like pulleys and you start across the front, snug it up, work the other side, come around the back to the near side and then pull like hell. It really squeezes it down, The more you pull, the bigger the diamonds get .
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<br>I first thought it was kinda sacrilegeous to use these quick links, and outfitters cast me a funny eye when they see them. But they work and make my life easier.
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<br>I am usually packing by myself and I can handle it. Although I hate those 16h mules. Mine are all 14 or less.
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<br>If I was buying new gear, I would probably go with one of those new systems you guys are talking about, but I already three pack outfits with sawbucks and bags, totally about $1200 for all of it.

About 10 years ago I saw a fellow down in Redding demonstrate tieing a diamond with those quick links you are talking about. Made it pretty simple for a man by himself.

Ain't no outfitter I know what ties a diamond 'cept fer this feller thet teaches it in a "guide school". Does it cause it looks good, not cause it holds better or is easy. Onliest reason to use a diamond is cause you got a huge, loose top load. With 18 or 20 pack animals, who's got time to fiddle with extra steps or doodads. An' as fer as them clippy thangs, the fewer doodads the better. Pros know thet one less thang to git lost or keep track of is always best. Sides, ifn you boys saw the god awlful canyons I pack in an out of you'd see thet there jus' ain't nothin' wrong with the box. Like I said, quick, secure, an' done with one person.
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<br>An' as fer as bein' a prick goes: Thet's my lot in life. I reckin' god wanted to balance out my strikin' good looks an' my good fortune to live in the high stonies. He made me an' opinionated, willful, an' stubborn ol' cuss an' it ain't fer me to question the thinkin' of a feller what created the universe. You guys are fair game.

Like I said, if it works for you, use it. Around here we have both commercial packers and Forest Service trail crews. They all use the diamond hitch and the box hitch. Down south in the Kings Canyon, Sequia Park country, they use the diamond almost exclusively. You won't find much rougher country.