Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Starting Traditional

Monday morning one of the guys brought an old recurve to work.

He said it was given to him and he would like to learn.

First I had to dig out a string to fit and a few arrows.

I showed him how to string, twist the string up or down to tune.

I shot a few at 20yds. and the old bow shot pretty well.

I worked with him on grip, anchor point, release and follow thru.

I let him loose and go find about 10 shots, none hit the butt at 10 yds.

I had him face the butt again at 20yds. and told him to hold the index knuckle of his bow hand under the target, with the bow tilted about 10 degrees.

His next 10 shots all hit the 30" butt.

I told him to shoot about 20 shots when he got home.

Today before he went home he put 10 in about a 12" group at 20 yds.

He is developing a more classic form than I have.

I told hi that when he can keep 10 shots in a 6" circle I will work with him on shooting from various hunting positions.

He thought I was nuts when I got on a 6' ladder to take some pics of his form so he could see what he needed to work on.

He seems to be a natural. Oh to be young again.

I think it's the definition of aiming that the instinctive shooters are having trouble with. I don't have a set of sights on my lower parts when I go to take a whiz, but I do know the direction I need to be pointed in with reference to the bowl and the wall, and I know the angle I need to be in reference to the floor. Those references are the gap. So yes, I use gapping even when I take a whiz. I don't have to look at the gap and measure it before I let fly. All that has become ingrained through repetition. Teaching my 4 year old boy, I tell him , point it this way, or point it down a little more. It helped him learn faster. Isn't that better than telling him, you have to do it instinctively, to be a better whizzer. That way you can whiz in any position and under difficult conditions.

What you guys simply refuse to acknowledge is that you also use references when shooting, even if they are all learned subconsciously. I shoot the same way by only concentrating on the spot I want to hit. The only difference is that I acknowledge the references I use to aim. The only benefit is that it's easier to teach a new shooter a few of these references so that they have some idea where they need to be until those become ingrained through repetition.

I hope you find the above humorous, so as to lighten the mood. I only care about helping anyone struggling, rather than proving myself right at the expense of proving someone else wrong. I hope whatever method you use works well for you and only ask that you look at all methods as possibilities for improvement rather than as affronts to your philosophy. Have a great day gentlemen.

While I believe we're practicing semantics, there is a huge difference between "pointing" and "aiming". Ask anyone who is really good with a shotgun.

There again I would say they are just aiming fast , rather than just pointing, otherwise they could just cut the bead off rather than putting on high viz bead sights. The rear sight on a shotgun is cheek weld and without employing that as well to aim, the pointing won't help at all.

Lots of competion shooters do remove the bead, especially Olympic shooters. If they could make the barrel invisible, they would.

Maybe so, but they would never have gotten to that point without it to begin with and even then they are using the gap between the barrel and the target to shoot instinctively. I don't buy that they could shoot with an invisible barrel. They simply want all their attention on the target, just as a good gapper does. It's just like when driving a car, you don't look at the edges of the road to see how close you are, you look where you are going, but you see the edge in your peripheral vision and use it as a reference, you never want to concentrate on the gap between the edge and the car. Your full attention is focused on where you want the car to go.

It's very interesting that you use that analogy, because clay shooters use almost the exact same one with a caveat..."if you ever look at the hood ornament, you lose focus on the target".

I would completely agree on that. I'm glad we took this time to discuss what I consider aiming and I hope it has helped clear up some misconceptions, at least as far as the way I and some of the best shooters I know gap shoot. It's not at all about concentrating on the gap or the point except in the very beginning when learning to be consistent. I just think paying attention to those as a reference will help a new shooter until they have an idea of what the proper relationship of bow, arrow and target to each other needs to be to hit a target.

I've enjoyed the dialog as well, and will be the first to admit that every style of shooting has it's advantages and disadvantages. This little conflict between "aimers" and "pointers" is not unlike that which you see between trap and skeet shooters. Seldom do you see somebody that do both really well, because the basics conflict. I know this much though...I wouldn't want to be dove flying past either one.

You know that arrow is sticking out there at arms length and right under your eye, it has to be in the exact place, drawn to a consistent anchor and loosed in a consistent manor, so here's my question - Why not notice where the point is prior to taking your shot? To me gap shooting makes too much sense to ignore.

We are much closer than apart. Just some small differences in thought process. How do you touch your nose with a finger? It is learned behavior from sticking your finger in your eye, up your nose, in your mouth or on your cheek.

If you start close, you do not have to consciously learn a gap.

Yes, other factors subconsciously come into play, but why distract yourself with the extra stuff. There is enough going on while trying to execute a shot out hunting. Focus on what's important, the spot you want the arrow to hit.

You think I don't accept gap shooting, no I do not. My personal choice. You do not accept instinctive shooting. Your personal choice. Either way it is a learned behavior, one just takes more thought process while executing the shot.

It has been a great conversation. Would love to get together and shoot some arrows some day.

An instinctive shooter does just as well in the dark, or with the bow canted at any angle, or without a consistant anchor. Is this the way to shoot groups or target competition? Of course not, but it has it's place and is something that some enjoy. Like shooting a pistol from the hip, it can be done.

I reckon that was meant for the other fella...if I wanna aim, I pick up one of my compounds.

Shoot however you want, but if you can't hit crap past 10 yards, you might want to reevaluate your philosophy.

It's actually about 20, but I can do it in the dark, on my back, at half draw.

So can I. I've also been known to hit very small targets at much greater distance. A 10 ring on a raccoon target at 60 yards won me a state championship. I don't mean to brag at all, just illustrating that target and gap shooting is in no way a detriment. I shoot kneeling, sitting, and even laying on my back during practice. I even tried shooting with my eyes closed but that didn't work so well.LOL

When I started shooting shotguns competitively, one of my first realizations was that I was a hell of a hunter, but not a very good shot. All my life as a wingshooter, I had worked (or waited) for the easy shot, avoiding the the difficult ones. Hundreds of thousands of shotgun shells spent on sporting clays changed all that. I can see where it would do the same with arrows.

That said, when I pick up my longbow, it's for just the opposite reason, to become a better hunter...not a better archer. We all enjoy different challenges.

I'm just the opposite. I don't even care about hunting with a bow. I enjoy it, but only go when some of my friends want to bowhunt. I like the discipline that it takes to make a great shot with trad equipment. When I hit a quarter size target at 20 yards with a recurve or longbow I have a much greater sense of accomplishment than doing it with a sighted compound because I know the difference in practice and discipline that it takes with the longbow or recurve.

I may be able to shoot well, but I could certainly use some lessons in bowhunting.

Being obsessed with bowhunting is not all it's cut out to be. You walk around at work all day worrying about which direction the wind is blowing from.

Regardless, I bet it would be fun if there were someone like you around here to show me the ropes.