Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 120gr GS Custom HV = Elk Bullet???

We conducted a "penetration test" at 100 yards for all data listed. We filled 1 gallon sheet metal cans with water. The cans measure 8" wide by 12" tall by about 4" thick. We place the cans (filled with water and caps secured) in a line spaced 1" apart.
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<br>Velocities are measured 10 feet from the muzzle.
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<br>Following are the results of our tests:
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<br>280 Ackely Improved
<br>Velocity = 3150
<br>140gr Ballistic Tip
<br>The first can blew up completely and the bullet was recovered inside the second can. The bullet went into but not through the second can.
<br>This test was done last year and we do not have the retained weight of that bullet.
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<br>375 H&H
<br>235gr Speer
<br>Velocity = 2900
<br>The bullet completely blew up 4 cans and went through one side of the 5th can. The bullet was recovered and weighed - 187.1gr
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<br>300 win mag
<br>180gr ballistic tip
<br>Velocity = 3140
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<br>The bullet went completely through 3 cans and penetrated the front of the 4th can. The bullet was found inside the 4th can.
<br>Retained weight = 102.5gr
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<br>280 Ackley Improved
<br>120gr GS Custom HV Bullet
<br>Velocity - unknown (we have yet to run in through the chrony)
<br>We can only guess the velocity to be in the range of 3300fps based on our load used. We used a mild load.
<br>Retained weight = 93.7gr and a perfect "mushroom" shape
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<br>The bullet went completely through 6 cans and put a hole in the 7th can.
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<br>Based on these tests it is determined that the 120gr GS Custom HV bullet does penetrate better then the 375 H&H using a 235gr Speer bullet - at 100 yards.
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<br>All cans used where of the same make/type and we spaced them all apart the same distance (1 inch).
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<br>We fully realize that cans filled with water are not the same as animals. But, since these tests were all run using the same cans (filled with water) the test is the same for all calibers and bullets used.
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<br>We only loaded 5 rounds for the 280 AI with the 120gr GS Custom HV bullets and we did not have the chrony set-up to measure speed. One round was shot to get the barrel dirty, then 3 shots where fired for group (at 100 yards). The group measured .827"
<br>The 5th round was shot through the cans of water.
<br>This was the very first loading we tried with the 120gr GS Custom HV bullet.
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<br>Based on this group we are sure we can develop an accurate load.
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<br>We will be loading up some 120gr GS Custom HV bullets in the 7mm mag and running the same test and checking for accuracy of groups. If our data so far is any indication it looks like we have just found a 120gr bullet that will penetrate better then a 235gr bullet out of a 375H&H.
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<br>It sure looks like the 120gr GS Custom HV bullet will be good for elk hunting out of a 7mm mag.
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<br>Don
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<br>P.S. As soon as we have the "can" data and accuracy of the 120gr GS Custom HV bullets using the 7mm mag, I will post those results.

The 235gr Speer,is a notorious "bomb",in that it is very thinly jacketed. Penetration is not it's penchant and I could not think of a more frail constructed,.375" offering. Substitute a 235gr X and results would be most different.
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<br>A controlled expansion .284" projectile of 120grs weight,placed well,would defeat the most stubborn Elk. Guys do it with sticks and strings all the time.
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<br>Be curious to hear your findings of the GS vs. the X in 7mm and the 120gr weight,in the same tests..................

Don,
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<br>Interesting test. Do you have any plans to test heavier bullets, say 375/300 X bullets?
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<br>Blaine

Stick,
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<br>I know you really like the X bullets, I don't. Just can't get them to shoot for peanuts.
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<br>Sorry to say, but I won't be running any tests using X bullets, out of my 7mm mag. I have no doubt that (if I could get them to shoot) the X bullet would do well in "our" penetration tests. I am not sure (with the same weight bullet, caliber and velocity) how they would fair against the GS Custom HV bullet but I doubt the HV would beat them by much. Again, thats just a "guess" on my part.
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don

AFP,
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<br>After readin your post I sort of smiled, to myself. Not that what you said was funny - read below and you will see why.
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<br>Actually we had planned on testing my 375 H&H Ackley Improved using a 265gr GS Csutom HV bullet. BUT we ran low on cans,
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<br>We really didn't think that the 120gr GS Custom HV bullet was going to "eat up" so many of our cans. We only had 1 left (at the range, filled with water) after we ran the above 3 tests, today. We have 8 cans as of now but we are doubtfull that would be enough. We will wait till we can obtain at least 4 more cans. Once we have 12 cans, filled with water, and all in a line I will shoot my 375 H&H AI using the 265gr GS Custom HV bullet into them. We "want" to recover the bullet, as well as see how many water filled cans the bullet goes through.
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don
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<br>P.S. Once we do run the same test on the 265gr bullet I will post the results.

Stick,
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<br>I do have some 270gr X Bullets for my 375 H&H AI and I will load some up. Hopefully I can get them to shoot well enough to conduct "our" can test. I will post the results.
<br>They are not solids.
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<br>The 235gr speer is a thin jacketed bullet. You are correct about that but most would beleive it a good bullet out of a 375 H&H to kill an elk.
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<br>We conducted these "tests" to prove to ourselves that the 120gr HV is enough bullet (out of a 7mm mag) to cleanly kill an elk. Based on our tests today it appears that it will do just fine. We used a 280 AI and as you know there isn't a "hill of beans" difference between the 280 AI and the 7mm mag, using a 120gr bullet.
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<br>Also, based on our "first" loading we believe we can get them to shoot accurately without a lot of fuss.
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don
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I'm glad the 235gr Speer in .375H&H discrepancie was mentioned, and look forward to seeing the future test with bullets more suited to the 375H&H.
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<br>Testing is a good thing, and I appreciate you sharing the results.
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<br>I'm sure the 120gr GS Custom bullet will do just fine.

I screwed up a couple of years ago when I shot a 250g Sierra
<br>Game king in the can test.I shot to high and the bullet exited the cans.I did however loan my 375 to my Alberta hunting buddie who managed to shoot a 400 lb black bear at about 15 feet.This bullet went about 3.5 feet in the bear and stopped down on the lower belly.It was a perfict mushroom and the bear was totally dead.The 250g is the bullet I use in the 375.It beat every other bullet for accuracy and flatness out to 300.I have yet to get any 375 bullet to explode.The 180g Ballistic Tip that Don shot was the real surprise.I never figured that we would get that much penatration.This bullet is a wrecking machine.You might get some blood shot meat but the game dies in its tracks.
<br>I have to find more cans.I'd really like to give the 25 Booboo a run with the 100g Partition.That would be interesting.Too many bullets not enough cans.
<br>dave

Big Stick,The load that we shot today was the 120g GS-HV over 64g of Norma N204 in a Norma case set off with a CCI-BR2 primer.I had run as much as 66g of this stuff on the 120g Ballistic Tip but it was to hot and I had to back down.
<br>Be interesting to see how far I can push this GS bullet and not get loose primer pockets.
<br>As a BR shooter I dont like not being able to get my bullets out next to the lands.You can forget that with the GS bullet.You need at least two of the rings down in the case neck.So thats what I did.These things had to be jumping a mile.But I felt pretty good ,I know a 3 shot group is meaningless but .827 in light conditions with no wind flags and the sun .Im happy.Also there was only about .25 of verticle in my group.Time will tell.
<br>Did I ever tell you about the time I tried the can test with my 22 CHeetah.?A 52g Berger bullet at a measured 4260fps.The first can exploaded big time I never found the top of the can or what was left of the bullet.The end or bottom of the can was sitting on

My understanding is that water and 20% gelatin make as close a medium as living flesh as can be found. It does not perform like bone, or much heavy muscle, however.
<br> The GS bullet retained about, what, 75-80% of it's weight ?
<br> The tests I've seen, such as in Gun Test magazine, using not only water, but fresh bone indicate some of our more common premium bullets retain 90% of their weight, or very close to it.
<br> The X, and the Fail Safe, seem to always retain 90-100% on water tests. They also have a small cross section which permits them to penetrate unusually well.
<br> I am wondering why the 120 gr. weight for elk. Wouldn't you have more leeway with the 140-160 gr. weights ? E

Excuse me for asking but, I have never heard of those brand of bullets. Are they made up special for elk? It seems they go against the grain of what most folks believe is acceptable for big animals. I use a 225 grain Nosler partition for hunting elk in my 338 mag and 160 grn in the wifes 7mm mag. They penetrate deep and cause severe tissue damage.

E,
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<br>The reason I went with the 120gr can be summed up in one word "Flatness".
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<br>If I get 3400 to 3500 (with accuracy) out of my 7mm mag with the 120gr HV bullet you can imagine how flat it will shoot.
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<br>I have a Swarovski 2.5 to 10 X 42 scope on my 7mm mag and I don't use my 7mm mag for shots beyond 400 yards. I will determine how high I need to sight in at 100 yards to be able to hold dead on out to at least 300 yards and still maintain a plus or minus 3" area for a clean kill. Through shooting at 100, 200, 300, 350 and 400 yards I will determine where I need to "hold" on the animal from 300 to 400 yards. I do not adjust for elevation using that scope while in the field, actually hunting. I do use a Leica Geovid to determine distance. What I do is take readings all around from where I sit and make a map. When I see an animal next to one of the marks on my map I check the distance (on the map). I then know how far it is to that animal. If the animal comes into my view at a place where my map doesn't have a distance I will then "laser" the animal several times even though this is time consuming and I may not get the opportunity to shoot. Once I "know" the distance I can them "place" the bullet on the animal (based on actually shooting at all the various ranges I plan to shoot in the field).
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<br>If I can extend my "dead" range to 350 yards versus 300 yards (as would be the case with a heavier bullet) I have extended my "dead on" range. When in the field hunting, this makes it easier, for me.
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<br>Hope this explains why I like "speed". Speed = flatness
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<br>Don

Mushroom,
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<br>You are correct in that it goes against what "most" would consider elk fodder. I like to try new bullets and see how they perform. Based on our tests so far I have no doubt that the 120gr HV bullet will perform just fine on elk sized animals. I also like flat shooting bullets. You can imagine how flat this bullet will shoot (out to 400 yards) if I can get 3400 to 3500FPS (with accuracy).
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<br>I don't beleive that the GS Custom HV bullet (made in South Africa) was made specifically to kill elk. They bullets are made for deep penetration on tough animals - such as found in Africa. The bullets are made from a copper alloy - no lead in them at all. The bullets are machined using a C.N.C. (computer numerical control) Lathe. We measured 20 of these bullets using a .0001" Brown & Sharpe indicator. We placed the bullets (business end down) in a fixture we made that locates the ogive in the fixture/holder. We then ran the fixtured bullet under the indicator to see how consistent the bullets measure. We found no more then .0007" deviation measuring all 20 bullets. I work to .0002" tolerances everyday and we have the necessary equipment to take measurements to .00005" (fifty millionths of an inch). We also measured the diameter of the same 20 (randomly selected) bullets and found a deviation of no more then .0002" (total deviation).
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<br>Being Tool & Die Makers and working to .0002" tolerances everyday we are "probably" more picky then your average hunter or reloader.
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<br>Hope this answers your questions.
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<br>Don
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Smells like steaks on the grill to me.
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<br>Jeff

E, I use the cans because its easy and cheep.I thought about making a box with wheels to hold wet newpaper but the cans are just too easy.Monkeying around with wet newspaper seems like alot of grunt work.Its just an informal test to , see what happens.It is interesting.I still want to give my 25 Booboo a try.Figure that 100g Partition has to be up around 3600fps or better.To be honest I never thought the GS bullet would go under an inch so I was happy it did.How do you think this GS bullet would work on a deer?I think a straight up lung shot on a deer with this bullet would lead you on a merry chase. My big problem is I like a bullet that shoots as good as a ballistic tip and thats hard to find. My limited testing of X bullets for accuracy has left me pretty cold.I will try them again.
<br>dave

Mushroom,
<br>You can read more about the GS bullets at.
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<br>http://gscustom.co.za/
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<br>This guy likes light bullets at high speed on big game.The only 100g 25 caliber bullet he recovered from game was from a Kudu at 415 meters.
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<br> dave

Dave. It should work fine on deer if they open at low impact speeds.
<br> I don't understand why you guys are having so much trouble with the Barnes X.
<br> They do take more testing to find an accurate load. And you must have your barrel clean down to just the traces of copper fouling, or better.
<br> I'll bet money your BooBoo will surprise you with it's penetrating ability using the Nosler Partition. It will probably shear off it's front core, and penetrate like a solid.
<br> Anyway, thanks for posting your test results. I always like to know what works and how well. E

Eremicus
<br> Have you noticed any trends when finding good loads for the barnes X, or just more trial and error? dempsey

E,
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<br>As you said: "They do take more testing to find an accurate load."
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<br>To much messing around for me. Another reason I don't care for X Bullets is that they are about the worst "copper fouling" bullet I have ever used. We did try those blue coated ones and I didn't care for the poor results of them either. Very little copper fouling using the GS Custom bullet. So many possitives for the GS Custom bullets and so many negatives with the X Bullets. "My" choice is clear.
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<br>I was planning on using the 270gr X Bullets on my trip to Africa but after seeing the results of the 120gr GS Custom HV bullet I have no doubt that the 265gr GS Custom HV (.375) is a much better choice and I will be using them in Africa.
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<br>I have 50 of the 265gr GS Custom HV bullets for my 375 H&H AI and will be loading them up in the next few weeks and testing them. IF I get 3000 FPS with them I can only imagine how many cans of water it is going to take to stop it. Hey Dave, we need a LOT more cans,
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don

After struggling with XLC's with my 06 and .300 Wby, I planned to only "waste" money on one box of XLC's for my 338 Ultra. 30-40 shots into the box, I had a load going great. Go figure! Guess luck was bound to bounce in my direction eventually...