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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
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Yeah.... Just checked.... They sell the forend and then a seperate lighting rail....I have one of the new Surefire Ultras that is just stupid bright..... The barrel I have has adjustable sights but I can't see the non illuminated front sight after dark.....
Seems like my options would be to either install a night sight or add a laser to a different rail.... Has anyone else worked out a good night hunting system on an 870? I like it A LOT. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/92...oke-with-tritium-rifle-sights-parkerized
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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...with #6's. For "home defense: it doesn't matter what you shoot them with from a shotgun and smaller shot won't go thru as many walls. I meant a full choke plus buckshot if you want a denser pattern at distance.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
That is correct. It is stupid easy to activate the TLR-1 with this set-up.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
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I have fired hundreds if not thousands of rounds of buckshot- mostly in official capacity. In a standard police shotgun (Rem 870 with no work done to it) I could not reliably get all 9 pellets to hit inside the scoring lines on a TQ19 at 15 yards. If you did a long forcing cone you could keep them in at 15. There was a guy, Louis Aurback or something that had a system with a really long forcing cone that would let you pattern pretty good to 25 yards.
Fast forward to shotgun hunting. I played with many different loads and choke tubes. Generally, buckshot does not like a tight choke. A long modified is as good as it gets usually. I never could get any buckshot to pattern good enough to want to hunt with it. I ended up using #2 hevi shot and BB hevi shot. They patterned enough better to be worth using.
When I did entries on search warrant and arrest warrany executions, I was often point with my 870 and I would either carry 000 buck or maybe slugs. Ranges were whatever you could get inside a house or apartment. It was close range stuff! Only thing I ever smoked with buckshot was a dog!
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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...with #6's. For "home defense: it doesn't matter what you shoot them with from a shotgun and smaller shot won't go thru as many walls. I meant a full choke plus buckshot if you want a denser pattern at distance. Why not use a slug?
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
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Wouldn't HeviShot or Tungsten-mix goose loads with the largest available shot pattern really well and offer nearly as much penetration?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have fired hundreds if not thousands of rounds of buckshot- mostly in official capacity. In a standard police shotgun (Rem 870 with no work done to it) I could not reliably get all 9 pellets to hit inside the scoring lines on a TQ19 at 15 yards. If you did a long forcing cone you could keep them in at 15. There was a guy, Louis Aurback or something that had a system with a really long forcing cone that would let you pattern pretty good to 25 yards.
Fast forward to shotgun hunting. I played with many different loads and choke tubes. Generally, buckshot does not like a tight choke. A long modified is as good as it gets usually. I never could get any buckshot to pattern good enough to want to hunt with it. I ended up using #2 hevi shot and BB hevi shot. They patterned enough better to be worth using.
When I did entries on search warrant and arrest warrany executions, I was often point with my 870 and I would either carry 000 buck or maybe slugs. Ranges were whatever you could get inside a house or apartment. It was close range stuff! Only thing I ever smoked with buckshot was a dog! Couldn't agree with your assessment more. I too have served in similar capacities on entry teams...there is NO better tool for homes and apartments. Period. I have witnessed the Rem. 870's effectiveness first-hand with 00 loads. It is devastating. I believe it would be even more effective if one had the luxury of a fixed position and let the threat come to them as in defending ones home.
Buy once, cry once.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Wouldn't HeviShot or Tungsten-mix goose loads with the largest available shot pattern really well and offer nearly as much penetration? Yes. #2 Steel is an excellent burglar round.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wouldn't HeviShot or Tungsten-mix goose loads with the largest available shot pattern really well and offer nearly as much penetration? There are tungsten BB & T low recoil loads designed for home defense.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Many years ago, when running deer with dogs was legal in Texas and shotguns with buckshot were the prefered weapons, I came to some conclutions that I feel are valid for self defense purposes as well.
First is that buckshot is best used at very close range.....preferably under 25 yards or so. It can be effective at longer ranges but even the best patterning guns begin to spread the pellets pretty thin at more than 25 yards. For deer or self defense you want every pellet to strike in the "kill zone" and that means a spread of no more than 8-10". It matters not how many pellets strike in a 30" circle as many (maybe most) will strike "fringe" areas and not be effective killers. This is not a problem at all for typical self defense use as it would take an extreemely big room to offer a 25 yard shot inside a home.
Second, since the effective range of buckshot is so short, pellet size matters little. The only real advantage of larger pellets is better penetration at longer ranges. At close range any pellet size has plenty of penetration and multiple hits are more effective than any energy advantage a larger pellet might have.
Third is that most shotguns will pattern smaller size pellets better than larger sizes. This is particularly true if the choke is tighter than IC. In fact, with #4 Buckshot the very best patters are often had with a modified or even full choke.
I found a load of #4 Buckshot to be much mopre effective for me as deer medicine.....and would choose the same load for self defense purposes. You also gain the advantage that the lighter #4's will be less likely to penetrate multiple walls endangering unintended targets.
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
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...with #6's. For "home defense: it doesn't matter what you shoot them with from a shotgun and smaller shot won't go thru as many walls. I meant a full choke plus buckshot if you want a denser pattern at distance. Why not use a slug? Why not indeed. I vote for a 5.56 over the shotgun, and if you are going to use slugs that just clinches it for me. Back to chokes and busckshot, guys spend $$ to get their guns Vang Comped so they can shoot better patterns at longer ranges, when all they need is a full choke. Last box of 00 I bought the manufacture recommended a full choke. At close range the pattern is tight enough regardless of choke you have to aim, so the full choke really only helps when you move out to longer distances.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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Well said, and one thing that even experienced shotgun hunters fail to realize about shooting people is that you ain't worried about finding and eating what you shoot. At 10 yards, a load of #8's from a .410 will stop an aggressor every time.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Nothing over BB would pattern nearly as well as conventional shot sizes. I used #2 hevi shot from predator calling and feel comfortable to 65 yards with this combo. The hevi shot seems to penetrate and kill about 2-3 shot sizes bigger than lead.
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I keeps me a couple of boxes of 3" (lead) BB's for the calling.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wouldn't HeviShot or Tungsten-mix goose loads with the largest available shot pattern really well and offer nearly as much penetration? Yes. #2 Steel is an excellent burglar round. .. Steel does not work well on fur though. I am surprised it would work well on clothing and people. Steel will somehow get caught up in fur. We have all tried it and went back to hevi shot or lead. It's dang hard to find lead in #2 or BB or T sizes these days. Steel might work at 15 yards but not at 40.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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you ought to read this guy and what he does to a shotgun. https://vangcomp.com/Pattern_dea.htmlbe sure and look at the dea test
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Many years ago, when running deer with dogs was legal in Texas and shotguns with buckshot were the prefered weapons, I came to some conclutions that I feel are valid for self defense purposes as well.
First is that buckshot is best used at very close range.....preferably under 25 yards or so. It can be effective at longer ranges but even the best patterning guns begin to spread the pellets pretty thin at more than 25 yards. For deer or self defense you want every pellet to strike in the "kill zone" and that means a spread of no more than 8-10". It matters not how many pellets strike in a 30" circle as many (maybe most) will strike "fringe" areas and not be effective killers. This is not a problem at all for typical self defense use as it would take an extreemely big room to offer a 25 yard shot inside a home.
In fact, with #4 Buckshot the very best patters are often had with a modified or even full choke. endangering unintended targets. I have not found this to be true. Specialized buckshot chokes are not usually full but rather modified choke at tightest. I got my best patterns ever with a patternmaster choke tube but they are not compatible with slugs and until recently, we could not hunt lions with buckshot so I kept a slug ready in case I called in a lion. I have killed a few deer with buck and slugs but not under the classic conditions for which they were intended, all were over 100 yards and were probably more luck than anything. I used 000 towards the end because I felt like even if I got one pellet in I wanted it to make a big hole. I also felt it was better on cars than the smaller stuff and so I just loaded one type of shell.
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I keeps me a couple of boxes of 3" (lead) BB's for the calling. I've been keeping 00 Buck in the gun, and that won't likely change any time soon. But, I picked up a box of Winchester 3" steel BB, 1/1/8 oz, at 1550 fps. Gonna play with it a bit. At in-home distances, I think it would close-out one's Health Record in a hurry.
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Campfire Tracker
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I've got 3" Lead #2's in mine for home defense. It will kill anybody I shoot at at inside the house ranges.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Why do we try to make bullets come apart and shot loads stay together for personal defense? A skeet load of #9's is as good as it gets for defense within a house.
Hits like a slug at short range...low penetration of interior walls...easy to control...easy to defend in court...and hard on the eyes (the bad guys.)
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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