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Patrick Kennedy should know. Very interesting read.



http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/le...edy-wages-fierce-anti-pot-crusade-n22256

Last edited by RobJordan; 02/17/14.

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most the reasons he is against it in that article apply equally to alcohol.....infact in a few of the areas alcohol is way worse medically....


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Originally Posted by rattler
most the reasons he is against it in that article apply equally to alcohol.....infact in a few of the areas alcohol is way worse medically....


True. I hadn't thought about a "big marijuana" emerging analogous to "big tobacco" though. Its truly a dilemma. But you have to ask yourself, "is society (or individuals) going to be helped by more people smoking more dope"? I think not. As a populace, we have no self-control as it is (generalizing--I'm the exception, of course. wink ).

Jordan

Last edited by RobJordan; 02/17/14.

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If we made citizens responsible for the consequences of their bad decisions, rather that rewarding them, perhaps it would be different.


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No matter how bad legal pot is to the people of this country, the drug war is worse.

Just like prohibition, the cure was worse than the problem.

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Seems Patrick Kennedy wants to spend more tax payer money on "treatment" for pot smokers - brilliant! What else is new?

Last edited by night_owl; 02/17/14.


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Originally Posted by 700LH
No matter how bad legal pot is to the people of this country, the drug war is worse.

Just like prohibition, the cure was worse than the problem.


And that is the only question that matters.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by 700LH
No matter how bad legal pot is to the people of this country, the drug war is worse.

Just like prohibition, the cure was worse than the problem.




You probably don't have a single bit of data; but it did sound official.


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I can see his side of it, but I still disagree. Like he said, some people are looking for an escape, and for some of those people pot is where they find it. Others find it in alcohol or other drugs. Fact of the matter is, you cannot protect people from themselves, which is what they are trying to do. Hell, its exactly what the gun control crows claims to be trying to do. "Your not responsible enough to know whats good for you, so we'll tell you".

Its not that they are wrong, either. A chit ton of people out there who are not responsible enough to do whats good for them. However, as long as they are adults, that responsibility rests with them. As for pot, I'm not a fan, nor of alcohol. I just don't particularly care for the effects of either one. I couldn't get addicted if I wanted to. Thats just me though, and I have no interest in telling others what they should do with their life. From the potheads and alcoholics I've known,which is more than a few, I'll hang out with the potheads every time, if I have to choose. I also know plenty who use both/either on occasion, and are no worse off for it.

I realize there are a lot of people out there unable or unwilling to fight addiction. Obviously some people have a far more addictive personality than others as well. Some people are also more likely to snap and go on a rampage than others. We don't ban guns(hopefully)because of those people though. We hold those who cause trouble accountable for their own actions, without punishing everyone else for it. At least, we should.

Finally, the argument that pot leads to harder drugs. I don't buy it. I used to hear "every alcoholic started with one drink", which sounded idiotic to me even back then. Whole bunch of occasional and social drinkers started with one drink too. Should we just go to prohibition, so the playing fields level? Many of those who are on hard drugs started on pot. If they hadn't smoked pot, they probably would have done whatever other drug was offered to them first. Pot is common, so thats what most of them start with. If pot was coke, they would do that. Its the person, not the substance.

If drugs were legalized, would we see more use and more deaths? Maybe. I'm not sure the law is keeping a needle out of too many arms though. People who want to do that will do so. Most others won't, for obvious reasons. As for them dying sooner, well, its cheaper than keeping them in prison and we certainly don't have a shortage of people on this earth.

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Originally Posted by watch4bear
Originally Posted by 700LH
No matter how bad legal pot is to the people of this country, the drug war is worse.

Just like prohibition, the cure was worse than the problem.




You probably don't have a single bit of data; but it did sound official.




Quote
Drug warriors often contend that drug use would skyrocket if we were to legalize or decriminalize drugs in the United States. Fortunately, we have a real-world example of the actual effects of ending the violent, expensive War on Drugs and replacing it with a system of treatment for problem users and addicts.

Ten years ago, Portugal decriminalized all drugs. One decade after this unprecedented experiment, drug abuse is down by half


http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...ion-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

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Originally Posted by xxclaro
I can see his side of it, but I still disagree. Like he said, some people are looking for an escape, and for some of those people pot is where they find it. Others find it in alcohol or other drugs. Fact of the matter is, you cannot protect people from themselves, which is what they are trying to do. Hell, its exactly what the gun control crows claims to be trying to do. "Your not responsible enough to know whats good for you, so we'll tell you".

Its not that they are wrong, either. A chit ton of people out there who are not responsible enough to do whats good for them. However, as long as they are adults, that responsibility rests with them. As for pot, I'm not a fan, nor of alcohol. I just don't particularly care for the effects of either one. I couldn't get addicted if I wanted to. Thats just me though, and I have no interest in telling others what they should do with their life. From the potheads and alcoholics I've known,which is more than a few, I'll hang out with the potheads every time, if I have to choose. I also know plenty who use both/either on occasion, and are no worse off for it.

I realize there are a lot of people out there unable or unwilling to fight addiction. Obviously some people have a far more addictive personality than others as well. Some people are also more likely to snap and go on a rampage than others. We don't ban guns(hopefully)because of those people though. We hold those who cause trouble accountable for their own actions, without punishing everyone else for it. At least, we should.

Finally, the argument that pot leads to harder drugs. I don't buy it. I used to hear "every alcoholic started with one drink", which sounded idiotic to me even back then. Whole bunch of occasional and social drinkers started with one drink too. Should we just go to prohibition, so the playing fields level? Many of those who are on hard drugs started on pot. If they hadn't smoked pot, they probably would have done whatever other drug was offered to them first. Pot is common, so thats what most of them start with. If pot was coke, they would do that. Its the person, not the substance.

If drugs were legalized, would we see more use and more deaths? Maybe. I'm not sure the law is keeping a needle out of too many arms though. People who want to do that will do so. Most others won't, for obvious reasons. As for them dying sooner, well, its cheaper than keeping them in prison and we certainly don't have a shortage of people on this earth.


Nuff said. Good stuff.

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The Drug war is worse!


Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.


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JOHN GALT?


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Marihuana or Alcohol?

Ban 'em both! Won't effect me one bit. wink


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Hey MJ isn't all bad think of how many more places there are to rob with lots of money. This opens lots of opportunity in a depressed trade. Think obama career jobs.

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Originally Posted by xxclaro
I can see his side of it, but I still disagree. Like he said, some people are looking for an escape, and for some of those people pot is where they find it. Others find it in alcohol or other drugs. Fact of the matter is, you cannot protect people from themselves, which is what they are trying to do. Hell, its exactly what the gun control crows claims to be trying to do. "Your not responsible enough to know whats good for you, so we'll tell you".

Its not that they are wrong, either. A chit ton of people out there who are not responsible enough to do whats good for them. However, as long as they are adults, that responsibility rests with them. As for pot, I'm not a fan, nor of alcohol. I just don't particularly care for the effects of either one. I couldn't get addicted if I wanted to. Thats just me though, and I have no interest in telling others what they should do with their life. From the potheads and alcoholics I've known,which is more than a few, I'll hang out with the potheads every time, if I have to choose. I also know plenty who use both/either on occasion, and are no worse off for it.

I realize there are a lot of people out there unable or unwilling to fight addiction. Obviously some people have a far more addictive personality than others as well. Some people are also more likely to snap and go on a rampage than others. We don't ban guns(hopefully)because of those people though. We hold those who cause trouble accountable for their own actions, without punishing everyone else for it. At least, we should.

Finally, the argument that pot leads to harder drugs. I don't buy it. I used to hear "every alcoholic started with one drink", which sounded idiotic to me even back then. Whole bunch of occasional and social drinkers started with one drink too. Should we just go to prohibition, so the playing fields level? Many of those who are on hard drugs started on pot. If they hadn't smoked pot, they probably would have done whatever other drug was offered to them first. Pot is common, so thats what most of them start with. If pot was coke, they would do that. Its the person, not the substance.

If drugs were legalized, would we see more use and more deaths? Maybe. I'm not sure the law is keeping a needle out of too many arms though. People who want to do that will do so. Most others won't, for obvious reasons. As for them dying sooner, well, its cheaper than keeping them in prison and we certainly don't have a shortage of people on this earth.


only thing ill argue is that pot may lead to harder drugs cause if thats the case, most started with alcohol before pot so if a gateway drug is true, alcohol is it, not pot.....


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Originally Posted by RobJordan
But you have to ask yourself, "is society (or individuals) going to be helped by more people smoking more dope"? I think not.

Jordan



Wow. There has probably been more violence and oppression in the history of the world due to governments using that rational.

It's for the common good. We must do it.

I'm personally against marijuana, but what's happened in this country to fight drugs is a travesty of freedom and justice. Civil forfeitures? Should have been an American uprising as soon as that concept was ever floated. No knock raids to take down somebody growing a few plants? The forefathers would be ashamed.

Personally I lean to legalize it, then let the STATES regulate it and tax it into oblivion if they don't like it.


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Originally Posted by Calhoun
Personally I lean to legalize it, then let the STATES regulate it and tax it into oblivion if they don't like it.


Since when do we support freedom by selling taxation? Just take it off the books and forget about it.


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Originally Posted by rattler
only thing ill argue is that pot may lead to harder drugs cause if thats the case, most started with alcohol before pot so if a gateway drug is true, alcohol is it, not pot.....


Weed is THE gateway drug, much more than alcohol, because it can only be obtained from criminals. Take the criminals out of the equation. That, or actually make it a crime...but that horse left the barn long ago.


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Originally Posted by Calhoun
Originally Posted by RobJordan
But you have to ask yourself, "is society (or individuals) going to be helped by more people smoking more dope"? I think not.

Jordan



Wow. There has probably been more violence and oppression in the history of the world due to governments using that rational.

It's for the common good. We must do it.

I'm personally against marijuana, but what's happened in this country to fight drugs is a travesty of freedom and justice. Civil forfeitures? Should have been an American uprising as soon as that concept was ever floated. No knock raids to take down somebody growing a few plants? The forefathers would be ashamed.

Personally I lean to legalize it, then let the STATES regulate it and tax it into oblivion if they don't like it.


Exactly.
Now enter Patrick Kennedy and his novel plan to ferret out marijuana "addicts", force them into "treatment" and if they don't comply with the "treatment", lock them in prison.
Is Kennedy serious?



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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by Calhoun
Personally I lean to legalize it, then let the STATES regulate it and tax it into oblivion if they don't like it.


Since when do we support freedom by selling taxation? Just take it off the books and forget about it.


I said let the states do it.. then it will be up to the people in the state. If the state doesn't care, then it won't be taxed. Heck, California will probably subsidize it. If Utah decides they don't want it at all (body is a temple and all that), then they should have the right to do whatever they want to WITHIN THEIR OWN STATE.

Jmho.


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