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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They listened and brought out a 77 in 9,3X62. They announced it, but they couldn't get it to shelves until they could scrounge up some proof loads first. By that time the Bloom was off the Rose. Dealers were averse to ordering these metrics, because few knew much more than 308s and magnums. By the time people were asking dealers for the 9,3X63 rifles, and dealers were trying to order them, Ruger spooked and gave up on the 9,3X62. There was also a bit of propensity to misfire, seemingly inherent in the 9,3X62. And, I'm sure Ruger was worried CZ had flooded that niche market by now. Bingo...no more being made suddenly...no more fast slender properly designed affordable medium bore Africa rifles that had rifle loonies grinning. NOW, they brought out a No.1 in 9,3X62!! No more bolt guns are being made in this great round, and they already were producing the 9,3X74R in No.1s. It is perplexing that they went this direction with a round so perfect for a standard length magazine rifle, and not anything special in a single shot. Ruger is becoming bi-polar. 
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Not really. They only make a few thousand No. 1's a year, so make most of those in new chamberings, knowing No. 1 loonies will buy them all.
Probably some guys who bought 9.3x74R's will also buy 9.3x62's! Certainly brass and ammo availability is better for the rimless round, partly because cases can always be made from .30-06's.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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John, You know how much I respect your opinion, but to drop a great bolt gun round, then put it in a single shot only doesn't seem logical. I realize that all these things we like are small potatoes in Ruger's scheme of things, and I can't argue with their success. I am also grateful they DID produce the African in 9,3X63, even if for a very limited run. From the outside, looking in it would seem that a standard Hawkeye in 9,3X62 wouldn't cost them much to add to that line. They already have the reamers, know how/where to get barrels, have the action and stocks that need no alteration Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I believe it would sell well enough for a relatively slight cost to justify adding to the lineup. Fortunately for the gun manufacturers I am not the typical target market, however. 
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Tracker
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There's a lot more cost than just cutting the chamber for a different round. For them to make a couple hundred rifles in what you believe is the perfect round and 90%+ of hunters have never heard of doesn't really make economical sense.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It sure did for CZ.  And, why now in a No.1 series Ruger?
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Tracker
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Not sure where this is going, but my interest in the 9.3's started by reading some of JB's earlier work on his CZ 550 9.3x62. I promptly ordered one of the same. Then Ruger had to do the No.1S in 9.3x74 - had to have one of those too (thinking JB might have influenced that as well). When Ruger came out with the African in 375 Ruger, I told myself if they ever did one in 9.3x62, I'd have one. Then they did - I resisted for a while...  When I found one, I promised myself I'd sell the CZ to justify it - couldn't do it. Now I find myself thinking of rechambering the African to 9.3x64 I can say that Ruger gambling on non mainstream chamberings has cost me some $ (and JB's reporting positively on same might be a factor), but all in a good way
Last edited by JGray; 02/19/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Not sure where this is going, but my interest in the 9.3's started by reading some of JB's earlier work on his CZ 550 9.3x62. I promptly ordered one of the same. Then Ruger had to do the No.1S in 9.3x74 - had to have one of those too (thinking JB might have influenced that as well). When Ruger came out with the African in 375 Ruger, I told myself if they ever did one in 9.3x62, I'd have one. Then they did - I resisted for a while... When I found this one, I promised myself I'd sell the CZ to justify it - couldn't do it. Now I find myself thinking of rechambering the African to 9.3x64 :crazy I can say that Ruger gambling on non mainstream We need to get into the same therapy group.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Exactly.
Ruger is a business. When Bill ran the company he often made guesses based on his gut feelings as a shooting loony, and was right more often than he was wrong. But he was wrong sometimes, and since he passed away it's become a much larger and more profitable company.
This thread is beginning to remind me a lot of the stories I hear from EVERY manufacturer of firearms, ammo, reloading equipment, components, etc. They're constantly told by individuals that they should chamber X cartridge, make Y bullet or Z ammo. Most just nod politely and say, "We'll take it under consideration."
But I do know a few individuals who, in such venues as the SHOT Show, reply, "And how many customers can you guarantee will buy it?"
The usual reply is, "Me and my brother-in-law, for sure."
Whereupon the company guy says, "Go find another 10,000 brothers-in-law and we'll talk." Depending on the day, the reply may not be that polite.
Companies that mass-produce rifles, ammo, bullets, etc. by their very definition aren't much into making custom rifles, ammo, bullets. etc. They're not going to tool up to produce a few dozen rifles that the guy and his brother-in-law could "produce" themselves if they were willing to pay $500 for a rebarrel job.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have found John' s writings on 9.3x62 to be enlightening. I did not realize how closely the 250 gr matches the 338WM 250gr. If one was loading the 338WM with only the 250' one could easily roll the 9.3 and have the ability to shoot heavier bullets.
If one is shooting lighter bullets in 338,then the 338 is still the way to go? If not, then I think is would go with the 9.3.
Would like to see a real through ballistical analysis/comparison one day.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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There's a lot more cost than just cutting the chamber for a different round. For them to make a couple hundred rifles in what you believe is the perfect round and 90%+ of hunters have never heard of doesn't really make economical sense. Nor did the Ruger short 338 or 300, but they tried those, too. Their 480 was a rousing success.  It shows they can be as wrong as we are. Wouldn't it be novel if they had guns like the 9,3X63 African ready to ship by the time they announced them to the public, instead of their role out that rivaled Obamacare's? I love Sturm,Ruger Inc. and have for most of my life. They have brought innovation and great toys to my toy-box for a long time, and I wish them continued prosperity. The move from bolt rifle to a single shot in this round has me puzzled.
Last edited by luv2safari; 02/19/14.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Outfitter
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IMO the RCM never made any sense when the WSMs and SAUMs already existed. And don't give this well the equal WM in short barrels. Gobblygook!
Just a vanity project and because they were upset that they had to pay Jamison if they continued to chamber WSMs.
Not saying they're not good cartridges, just too late and in a crowded marketplace.
I had thought that the 480 had a substantial share of the over 44mag crowd that couldn't afford or didn't want a 475 Linebaugh or 454 Casull.
Still think that if I went over 44mag I'd search out a super Redhawk.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nor did the Ruger short 338 or 300, but they tried those, too. Their 480 was a rousing success. It shows they can be as wrong as we are. Wouldn't it be novel if they had guns like the 9,3X63 African ready to ship by the time they announced them to the public... Actually that 480 was and is a much better cartridge than it's sales suggest, certainly better in several respects than the 460 and 500 that appealed to the testosterone sales crowd, and therefore overshadowed it in sales. Any gun loony understands that reason often plays a distant second fiddle to the desire for something that burns gunpowder. I suspect that Ruger may be realizing this reality. That doesn't mean that the 9.3x62 was a bad idea, just that they might want to avoid getting burned again.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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There's a lot more cost than just cutting the chamber for a different round. For them to make a couple hundred rifles in what you believe is the perfect round and 90%+ of hunters have never heard of doesn't really make economical sense. Nor did the Ruger short 338 or 300, but they tried those, too. Their 480 was a rousing success. It shows they can be as wrong as we are. Wouldn't it be novel if they had guns like the 9,3X63 African ready to ship by the time they announced them to the public, instead of their role out that rivaled Obamacare's? I love Sturm,Ruger Inc. and have for most of my life. They have brought innovation and great toys to my toy-box for a long time, and I wish them continued prosperity. The move from bolt rifle to a single shot in this round has me puzzled. I can't fault you on the RCMs! A lot of companies will "introduce" a model and then see what the demand and orders actually are before they decide if they're going to make them or not. Kimber announced a 84L in 35 Whelen, I ordered one as soon as they announced it, two years later I was informed that there were not enough orders and they decided not to make them.
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Campfire Regular
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Ruger has always done this type of thing. Numerous products have been announced and never see the light of day. They also have a bad habit of poor marketing and not giving time for a market to develop. The 480 is probable the most sensible big bore handgun cartridge ever developed. Yet they chamber the SRH for it. Instead of the SBH which is what the dedicated big bore handgun nuts want it chambered in. Lots of interest for the alaskan version of the SRH yet Ruger made them in extremely small numbers. How can you say sales are not strong enough if your not getting the product on the market. Last time Ruger said the 480 alaskans where to be produced I had several dealers hunting for one for me. All the distributors had waiting lists for the gun.
What really upsets me with Ruger is they are selling a ton of easily produced high profit margin plastic guns as of late. Now I am not saying they should lose money. But why can't they offer a few low profit margin guns that fill the small niche markets. The bottom line would still be extremely healthy and they would have a wider customer base familiar with their products that would consider buying a Ruger in the future. Seems like a product has to set sales records for Ruger to produce it recently.
Last edited by mike7mm08; 02/20/14.
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Here's some real Ruger logic for you.
Introduce a new, low dollar, bolt gun line that markets under $400 and add to it an improved trigger, better bedding, free floating and a serious recoil pad while still churning out your standard bolt gun at an always high but annually much higher MSRP with the same design 'features' your grandad enjoyed.
Ruger is asking its 77 fans, can you say "Duhhh"?
1B
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I guess I see this a little differently. Over the years, Ruger has produced short runs of specialty calibers and configurations for niche markets, while keeping continual production of mainline products. These short runs have allowed folks access to guns that other companies don't produce. It may look random, but I doubt it is.
My wife's been in Sales Service for 30 years and I've been in sales off and on for most of the last ten years. We spend a good bit of time with friends who are in sales and marketing. I would guess that there are marketing folks at Ruger who have a list of short runs and marketing data for them, including expected sales figures. Heck, they probably know what our ages are and what color socks we wear. I would also think that these short production runs will be just a few guns short of market demand. It's the way most other successful companies do business.
Bfly
Be nice and work hard, you never have enough time or friends.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's not random.
All major firearms companies look constantly at various trends, then try to produce guns to fit those trends. That doesn't mean they're always right--in either direction.
One example is the .300 WSM. For several years various wildcats and proprietary short/beltness cartridges had grown in popularity, so obviously demand was there. How much demand was the real question, and boy were the Winchester people fooled: In the .300 WSM's first year, rifle and ammo sales were EIGHT times their marketing predictions.
At the other extreme, of course, is the WSSM's, which didn't come anywhere near their projections.
One trend I've noticed over the years is most of the successful introductions are cartridges like the .300 WSM, where there's already some demand due to wildcats. Other examples would be the .22-250, .243, .25-06, 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum. There was already plenty of demand of those cartridges (or something very similar) before Remington and Winchester "introduced" them. And there was already some demand for a bolt-action .22 centerfire to fill the gap between the .22 Hornet and .220 Swift before the .222 Remington appeared.
The least successful introductions are cartridges dreamed up by firearms companies themselves, with zero indication of any desire from the shooting public. Good examples are the .225 Winchester, .256 Winchester "Magnum," and the 6.5 Remington Magnum. Oh, and most of the "modern: cartridges designed for traditional lever-action rifles that are supposed improvements over the .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington, including the .307 and .356 Winchesters and the .308 and .338 Marlins.
But they keep trying, partly because of occasional big successes like the 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 WSM. Unfortunately, there appears to have been only enough demand for short-fat-beltless magnums for one real success, which is why the other WSM's, the SAUM's and RCM's haven't done nearly as well.
But even the non-successes provide some hunters with an uncommon rifle they can claim is the best ever, even if maybe 68 other people truly believe it. I know hunters who firmly the .225 Winchester and 6.5 Remington Magnum are the very best rounds in their respective calibers, and aren't afraid to tell the world exactly why.
I'm also sure the gun companies are quite happy to know there are a bunch of high school teachers, insurance adjusters, lawyers, diesel mechanics, computer programmers and ranchers who could do a much better job of predicting what guns the American public will buy than their own people. The next time a marketing guy comes up with an idea like the .225 Winchester and 6.5mm Remington Magnum they can just fire him and place an ad in the Campfire Classifieds. They'll have their pick of 1000 experts.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's not random.
All major firearms companies look constantly at various trends, then try to produce guns to fit those trends. That doesn't mean they're always right--in either direction.
One example is the .300 WSM. For several years various wildcats and proprietary short/beltness cartridges had grown in popularity, so obviously demand was there. How much demand was the real question, and boy were the Winchester people fooled: In the .300 WSM's first year, rifle and ammo sales were EIGHT times their marketing predictions.
At the other extreme, of course, is the WSSM's, which didn't come anywhere near their projections.
One trend I've noticed over the years is most of the successful introductions are cartridges like the .300 WSM, where there's already some demand due to wildcats. Other examples would be the .22-250, .243, .25-06, 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum. There was already plenty of demand of those cartridges (or something very similar) before Remington and Winchester "introduced" them. And there was already some demand for a bolt-action .22 centerfire to fill the gap between the .22 Hornet and .220 Swift before the .222 Remington appeared.
The least successful introductions are cartridges dreamed up by firearms companies themselves, with zero indication of any desire from the shooting public. Good examples are the .225 Winchester, .256 Winchester "Magnum," and the 6.5 Remington Magnum. Oh, and most of the "modern: cartridges designed for traditional lever-action rifles that are supposed improvements over the .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington, including the .307 and .356 Winchesters and the .308 and .338 Marlins.
But they keep trying, partly because of occasional big successes like the 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 WSM. Unfortunately, there appears to have been only enough demand for short-fat-beltless magnums for one real success, which is why the other WSM's, the SAUM's and RCM's haven't done nearly as well.
But even the non-successes provide some hunters with an uncommon rifle they can claim is the best ever, even if maybe 68 other people truly believe it. I know hunters who firmly the .225 Winchester and 6.5 Remington Magnum are the very best rounds in their respective calibers, and aren't afraid to tell the world exactly why.
I'm also sure the gun companies are quite happy to know there are a bunch of high school teachers, insurance adjusters, lawyers, diesel mechanics, computer programmers and ranchers who could do a much better job of predicting what guns the American public will buy than their own people. The next time a marketing guy comes up with an idea like the .225 Winchester and 6.5mm Remington Magnum they can just fire him and place an ad in the Campfire Classifieds. They'll have their pick of 1000 experts. I was under the impression the .270 WSM was doing about as well in sales as the .300 WSM. Am I mistaken?
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Of all the firearms manufacturers, I think Ruger and Smith should be the last ones to be bashed for not making anything. Those two companies seem to do more for gun queers than any other. And they actually make good schit to boot.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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As a southpaw I can't bash Ruger one little bit. They've given us the LH Hawkeye in more calibers than just about all the other gun makers combined except Savage. .204, .223, .22-250, .243, .25-06, .270., 7mm-08, 7mm RM, .308, .30-06, .300 WM, their RCMs plus the .375 Ruger. And while they quit cataloging them, they've continued to make short runs of LH stainless rifles in .270, .30-06, .308, .223 and .300 WM. In the meantime Remington dropped their short action LH rifles and Winchester and Kimber refuse to make them at all. Knowing full well that LH rifles are a small niche and even a lot of southpaws buy right hand rifles (*$%@ traitors!!!) I've sent the Ruger CEO a couple of emails thanking him for keeping us in their thoughts, prayers and production schedule.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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