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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
Putin can flex his muscles, secure Crimea, it's military forces, a warm water port, ... and possibly Ukraine's nuclear sub base, and subs in Sevastopol.
What more could he ask for without firing a shot?
I don't think that Ukraine has any subs yet alone nuke subs. There are some OLD soviet subs half sunk along some of the arms of the bay at Sevastopol. You should be able to see them with google earth sat. view. So that's out. Check Jane's to confirm. Russia already owns large chunks of sea side property around the Black and Azov seas so the naval port is also a moot point IMO. I've been reading up on the subject and somewhere, on the innanet, it mentioned Ukrainian sub bases and subs. Maybe not nuclear armed but nuclear powered. IDK ....
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
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Not directed at anyone ...
What I'm trying to get at is Putin has a plan that includes a beginning, a middle, and an end.
This wasn't a reaction and he didn't send armed forces into Crimea without a plan and a specific goal. It's a land grab. The next step is the rest of Ukraine and then possibly head west into the EU. So Putin is trying to get the former Soviet Union back.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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Nope, he's just pissed that their hockey team didn't make it to the medal games in the Olympics. It will pass.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
Ask yourself this ....
Can Putin get away with everything he's done so far with impunity?
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Putin can flex his muscles, secure Crimea, it's military forces, a warm water port, ... and possibly Ukraine's nuclear sub base, and subs in Sevastopol.
What more could he ask for without firing a shot?
I don't think that Ukraine has any subs yet alone nuke subs. There are some OLD soviet subs half sunk along some of the arms of the bay at Sevastopol. You should be able to see them with google earth sat. view. So that's out. Check Jane's to confirm. Russia already owns large chunks of sea side property around the Black and Azov seas so the naval port is also a moot point IMO. I've been reading up on the subject and somewhere, on the innanet, it mentioned Ukrainian sub bases and subs. Maybe not nuclear armed but nuclear powered. IDK .... They have one operational submarine. It's not nuclear, it's and old Foxtrot diesel sub, and the Soviets didn't leave them any nukes when they left.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
Putin can flex his muscles, secure Crimea, it's military forces, a warm water port, ... and possibly Ukraine's nuclear sub base, and subs in Sevastopol.
What more could he ask for without firing a shot?
I don't think that Ukraine has any subs yet alone nuke subs. There are some OLD soviet subs half sunk along some of the arms of the bay at Sevastopol. You should be able to see them with google earth sat. view. So that's out. Check Jane's to confirm. Russia already owns large chunks of sea side property around the Black and Azov seas so the naval port is also a moot point IMO. I've been reading up on the subject and somewhere, on the innanet, it mentioned Ukrainian sub bases and subs. Maybe not nuclear armed but nuclear powered. IDK .... They have one operational submarine. It's not nuclear, it's and old Foxtrot diesel sub, and the Soviets didn't leave them any nukes when they left. I'm an admitted dumbphuck. I know nothing. Maybe the sub base is good enough. 
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
Ask yourself this ....
Can Putin get away with everything he's done so far with impunity? From the looks of it,yes.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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Consider this..
IF Putin continues as I suspect he will and most of his forces are in the west of Russia. The east is unguarded. There are vast amounts of oil and gas in the Siberian regions.
China has the largest army in the world and needs energy to continue to move ahead in the world..
Add up 2+2 and ??????
A quick trip north for China and the wealth of the kingdom is theirs. And the Russians still have enough nukes and ICBMs to turn every city in China into a parking lot.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
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Ask yourself this ....
Can Putin get away with everything he's done so far with impunity? From the looks of it,yes. There is nothing to stop him and he knows it.
Keep your gun-hand ready and your eyes peeled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Not directed at anyone ...
What I'm trying to get at is Putin has a plan that includes a beginning, a middle, and an end.
This wasn't a reaction and he didn't send armed forces into Crimea without a plan and a specific goal. It's a land grab. The next step is the rest of Ukraine and then possibly head west into the EU. So Putin is trying to get the former Soviet Union back. Putin has a lease on the Ukrainian ports until 2034. He protecting Russian interests by securing his leased territory. Russian markets and currency are both off sharply, actual shooting would only exasperate these declines, so we can expect the Russian troops to remain on the coast.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
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Ask yourself this ....
Can Putin get away with everything he's done so far with impunity? Yes. Our leadership is weak, everyone knows it! We get no respect as our President goes on apology tour after tour telling everyone how wrong America has been, drawing meaningless lines in the sand, and then another and then another. The solution was to not give the impression we are a bunch of girly men afraid of our own shadows in the first place! Too late for that and now other than saber rattling, toothless sanctions and freezing Putin's American checking account there is nothing that can really be done. Someone with balls has now filled the void left by us and the world is not better off...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Even with strong leadership we couldn't do anything about it.
Think Hungary 1956.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I've been reading up on the subject and somewhere, on the innanet, it mentioned Ukrainian sub bases and subs. Maybe not nuclear armed but nuclear powered.
IDK ....
Ukraine gave up ALL of it's nukes in 1998 with the Brussels Accord. In that treaty Russia and the US agreed to maintain Ukraine's borders against any agression.
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Putin has a lease on the Ukrainian ports until 2034. He protecting Russian interests by securing his leased territory.
That's his story and he's sticking to it.. BUT 2 weeks ago before he invaded Ukraine there wasn't any threat from anyone against anything. Even the dreaded Ukrainians that are considered Russia's little brother. I'm absolutely amazed that the boogey man could appear in his dreams so quickly to cause this.  The Russians have been stacking the deck by passing out Russian Passports to claim (for elections) more people than really are true Russian citizens. Much like the dead voting in Chicago for wazzisname.
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,993 |
Putin has a lease on the Ukrainian ports until 2034. He protecting Russian interests by securing his leased territory.
That's his story and he's sticking to it.. BUT 2 weeks ago before he invaded Ukraine there wasn't any threat from anyone against anything. Even the dreaded Ukrainians that are considered Russia's little brother. I'm absolutely amazed that the boogey man could appear in his dreams so quickly to cause this. The Russians have been stacking the deck by passing out Russian Passports to claim (for elections) more people than really are true Russian citizens. Much like the dead voting in Chicago for wazzisname. Two weeks ago Ukraine possessed a Russian friendly president. The anti-Russian take over was a very real event and not just something in "Putin's Dreams".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Better yet! Think 1938 when Hitler started the German occupation of Czechoslovakia to "Protect ethnic Germans that are being oppressed" Now just scratch out the German and insert Russian. Change the date from 1938 to 2014 and you get the picture.
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Better yet! Think 1938 when Hitler started the German occupation of Czechoslovakia to "Protect ethnic Germans that are being oppressed" Now just scratch out the German and insert Russian. Change the date from 1938 to 2014 and you get the picture. Sure. Difference is Germany didn't have any legitimate national interest in the Sudetenland. The Black Sea ports are a legitimate Russian interest. Considering the ethnic division in Ukraine, post Soviet Yugoslavia could form an apt paradigm.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 539
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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2 weeks ago Ukraine got rid of one of the biggest thieves in history that robbed the country blind. Yes the new government will probably try to lean more west than to Russia.
BUT that's hardly a reason to invade a sovereign friendly nation that has a very long history together as brothers.
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand
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Joined: May 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The naval base is a non issue. It wasn't under attack and had a fresh lease. It wouldn't have changed and probably won't even after this invasion.
Take a look at the Black Sea and the adjoining Sea of Azov. Russia has plenty of sea shore to play with including many other ports.
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand
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