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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Yes, ColTravis, you are a riot, for sure. Have you seen my latest snapshot of shrapnel? Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
You crack me up too flave. Hey by the way. 10 shot group with your big gun or go the [bleep] home If you can't kill a big game animal with a rifle like this, you better take up golf. Just sayin.... Oh by the way "GFY".... CZ? That's for the euro-trash that can't afford proper euro-trash. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,323 Likes: 39
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,323 Likes: 39 |
I thought Sako was Euro trash???
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I thought Sako was Euro trash??? It's proper euro-trash. Get your nomenclature straight. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
Proper euro-trash says "Rigby's Special Big Bore for Big Game": Sako trash: Get it right fer Pete's sake. BD
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,949 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,949 Likes: 2 |
Dam you have a big gun BD.
If you get it hitting proper POI are you going to shoot a cow?
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
I don't shoot cows with that gun.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314 |
Yes, ColTravis, you are a riot, for sure. Have you seen my latest snapshot of shrapnel? Travis Funniest post I've seen in a while!
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
Yes, ColTravis, you are a riot, for sure. Have you seen my latest snapshot of shrapnel? Travis This REALLY needs to be accompanied by music. " Ode to Joy" springs to mind�.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,658
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,658 |
My requirement is less than an inch at 100 yards off a bench. If it can't get under that at that range, I don't want it. My new custom, half inch or better at the range.
Reason for that being my personal limitations, I should only be concerned with my shooting and not the rifles. If the rifle is in question, it is fixed or gone. This new rifle is far better than I am and I don't have to worry about it at any range.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Yes, ColTravis, you are a riot, for sure. Have you seen my latest snapshot of shrapnel? Travis This REALLY needs to be accompanied by music. " Ode to Joy" springs to mind�. Monk's chanting..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
That is really part of the question. Which is more significant. I've been using median thinking it would better reflect what I want to know by giving less emphasis to a single bad shot.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?" Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?" Deer are somewhere all the time To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13 |
That is really part of the question. Which is more significant. I've been using median thinking it would better reflect what I want to know by giving less emphasis to a single bad shot. Consider these numbers: 2,2,2,3,100,100,100 Three is the median, but does it "best represent" the "middle" of these numbers?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
3 best represents what to expect of the next shot more than 44 does. 3 doesn't represent well what the entire picture looks like.
Last edited by Youper; 03/16/14.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?" Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?" Deer are somewhere all the time To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13 |
Why? Those 100's are in there pretty strong.
And if we're doing something similar with the position of a group center, aren't we concerned with what the middle of the entire picture looks like?
Last edited by mathman; 03/16/14.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
The 43 in this example seems poor at predicting the future. Nothing was actually near or like the 43. That's the way I see it, but convince me I'm wrong.
I tested more than thirty loads from more than a dozen rifles this way. I compared the median, average, and group size with each other. The strongest correlation was between median and average as would be expected. The weakest was between median and total group size.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?" Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?" Deer are somewhere all the time To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516 |
That is really part of the question. Which is more significant. I've been using median thinking it would better reflect what I want to know by giving less emphasis to a single bad shot. Consider these numbers: 2,2,2,3,100,100,100 Three is the median, but does it "best represent" the "middle" of these numbers? Mathman, I'm no statistics expert, but I've seen enough data to be very suspicious of the data you listed. Looks like two different data sets somehow got combined, or there was some measurement error or some other problem. Bottom line is I wouldn't trust the data until I could figure out why 3 of the 7 data points were TWO orders of magnitude higher than the rest and the two "groups" of data within the data set were remarkably consistent in themselves but very different than those in the other "group." In fact, I would be wondering if the data represented a "zero" value at the low end (with some noise or some other phantom amount like nonlinearity at the bottom of a correlation curve showing instead of zero) and then values that were beyond the measurement capability of the system. I know you were just throwing out some numbers for an example, but my point is blindly looking at a set of numbers is a trap that can lead to wrong conclusions. A lot more meaning can be derived from a data set when one knows something about the conditions under which the measurements were taken (e.g., gusty wind, a shot or two were pulled, etc.). If I remember correctly, the mean and the median converge as the number of points in the data set increases. With a small number of data points, you have a strong possibility of running into "errors" with both the mean and median.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13 |
I'm not thinking of predicting the next shot as much as estimating the center of the distribution being sampled. So for a group I need the means in x and y directions. From the mean point I can them measure the radius to each individual shot. Once I have that number for each shot I can calculate mean radius, or root mean square radius.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,910 Likes: 13 |
The data was deliberately contrived to illustrate a problem with using the median.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,118 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,118 Likes: 3 |
It's not a problem with the median, any more than it is a problem with the mean to say that 44.14 represents the data set. The problem is in the nature of the data set, which is not homogeneous and independent. It is highly autocorrelated. It doesn't matter which descriptive statistic you use. You're screwed.
For homogeneous and independent data, it matters very little whether you use mean or median, unless you have outliers you want to more or less ignore. Median is frequently much easier to get when in the field.
Last edited by denton; 03/16/14.
Be not weary in well doing.
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