Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Interesting Sheep Conversation

Stopped by F&G in Glenallen 2 years ago and there were 2 rams that they said were sublegal.F&G had called the Troopers. Asked my opinion and thought they were marginal, point is F&G can't agree between there biologist on age and absolute legal marginal Rams. You get 3 different opinions with 3 experts.

I keep hearing they don,t prosecute but I have talked to the people they do. I tend to want to shoot a Ram that will pass muster with 3 different F&G and Troopers and avoid marginal Rams, I am not lucky!

Well then, that settles it.

You made some calls, pointed some people to this thread and made them laugh, if that ain't proof I don't know what is.

Undirected.......


Wow, did this thread take a bird walk.

That happens a lot when the talk turns to sheep......

That,s how you tell the Rams from the Ewes watch the way the Ewe turns!

Unit 11 just changed from a 3/4 to a full curl area a few years ago. It seems like ADFG would have some of the data from that unit to support one side of this argument or the other. We also unfortunately have huge areas of unhunted sheep. If the protected sheep numbers are not crashing then it would be safe to say the full curl reg may be flawed? I'm not picking sides in this argument because I haven't been convinced either way.Just seems like with some data mining on a bios part you could come up with some telling comparisons.

I would be a big fan of the one every four years if you harvest regulation.It still allows a person the opportunity to hunt without having to be lucky enough to draw yet would limit overall take.As a person who has only drawn 2 tags(niether one a sheep tag) in 22 years of applying I'm not a big fan of relying on my luck just to go sheep hunting.
I also think it would leave a few more of those squeakers on the mountain because a hunter looking for a better ram might not shoot a smaller legal ram later in the hunt knowing he would not be able to hunt for four years.

While as a hunter I appreciate regulations such as a full curl or 50" 3 brow tine that allows everyone an opportunity to hunt with an over the counter tag, I believe that in the whole they are not the best way to manage a species for the health of the resource.

The other downside of such rules is that they lead to many sub legal animals being shot and left to rot when the hunter realizes he screwed up.

While I'd hate to see the state go to more and more draw permits for any ram/bull for big game, I think it will really be in the best interest of managing our game for healthy game and trophy animals and it will get rid of the problem of game being shot, found sub legal and left to rot.

(Poof!)


broom, you're finally learning to just walk away, Good for you.

Thank you, Ken...yep, I am learning. I can be slow at times. <grin>

This is the internet; anyone can say 'the earth is flat' and there is nothing one can do to change their mind.
Some might actually believe such nonsense too, but most know better.

It is quite amazing how many folks including officials don't know how to judge a true full curl.no wonder the numbers show declining age of sheep taken in the field. Just shows the piss poor job adfg is doing of educating folks in the regs. You always judge a ram down the axis from above to get the best look. Judging from below is possibly the hardest way.

This is the best description

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=sheephunting.fullcurl

Thanks, I have not seen it previously and I agree it does the best job of describing the rule and need to look down the axis of the horn.

And it does not change my mind on the degree of curl in the photos here.

The funny thing is it used to be in the regs. But for some reason it was taken out years ago..

Google: 'HEIMER Complications' for an outstanding (and lengthy)
read. It is a PDF file so it isn't linkable.

It's an excellent contrast to the 'internet biologists', guys who are self-appointed wildlife experts.

You certainly are giving them a lot of undue credit -- most sheep hunters I know assume the earth is full curl

And all wildlife biologists, and highly educated and experienced guides like Joe Want, are politically motivated.

No surprise that wildlife biology and politics can often be joined at the hip.
But not all sound (qualified!) biological opinion has to be political; some is apolitical.

I remember reading an article in the Fairbanks News Miner quite some time ago. It was an editorial written by Dave Kelleyhouse, arguably one of the most influential biologists interior Alaska has had.
He went on to eviscerate the Federal subsistence policies in TOK after he moved there and was encouraged to participate in subsistence hunting as a local.
This included shooting spring ducks and geese off of the nest, etc.
He deemed that it wasn't sound ecological or biological policy and refused to do it just because of his new geographical home.
That fact that he so vehemently and publicly trashed the Federal policies was notable, and this wasn't long after the Katie John controversy.

Anything 'Joe Want' can be a lightening rod, I ain't biting.

I never met Want, know little about him, but his constant sour grapes attitude damn near drove me from the AOD forum.

He was eventually banned if I recall?

Here is the link to Heimers report.

http://www.wildsheepalaska.org/docs/heimer_complications_nov12.pdf

I think so.
He was never at a loss of opinion.

Thanks....

It's very sad to see the decline that has happened since I left in 97. It sounds like the State needs to make some tough decisions if they are going to protect one of the most majestic creatures on earth.

Broomd, I'm very happy for you to have been able to experience that which so many only dream of and have the trophies to boot. There's a lot of wild meat I've not tasted, but sheep rates right up there!