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The bad part is that it doesn't even always work on solids. Compare flat nose solids and round nose, or even worse suppose one is wrong for the twist of the barrel and yaws, it can happen. Even a solid has to stay stabilized and nose forward to penetrate as expected due to SD.

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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
The only die hard I can recall was Gary Sitton who graded his hunting bullets as requiring a SD of .240 before he would use them on game.

Premiums and Homogenous offerings have proliferated since his passing though.
Sir,going to disagree with you,as Gary Sitton required a S.D. of .250 on game.


.250? Shoot, I require .270 or better. My favorite deer bullet has SD of .310.

What is sectional denisty? wink


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I believe on of the most defining fenominon of sectional in the last 100 years has been duely noted in a particular caliber of moderate velocity shooting seemingly light bullets. Hunters worldwide have noted that when hunting with the 6.5 sweede and a 140 gr. bullet that penetration seemed somewhat surprising and unordinary. For instance.......many hunters noted that when compared with the 7X57 shooting 140 gr pills the 6.5 sweede shooting 140s was a notable difference. In the minds of many of these hunters that noted this strange 6.5 phenomenon the only satisfying answer from a physics standpoint had to be greater sectional density. It is my belief that sectional density is one important proponent of penetration and is useful though it is not the only proponent and there are other useful contributing factors such as weight and bullet construction.

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I have found similar characteristics with the CB short. I understand the .22 short was the first metallic cartridge invented in the U.S. I don't know why they kept fiddlin' with it.

It is fenominonal.


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Originally Posted by jstevens
The bad part is that it doesn't even always work on solids. Compare flat nose solids and round nose, or even worse suppose one is wrong for the twist of the barrel and yaws, it can happen. Even a solid has to stay stabilized and nose forward to penetrate as expected due to SD.



+1........



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Originally Posted by Shod
I believe on of the most defining fenominon of sectional in the last 100 years has been duely noted in a particular caliber of moderate velocity shooting seemingly light bullets. Hunters worldwide have noted that when hunting with the 6.5 sweede and a 140 gr. bullet that penetration seemed somewhat surprising and unordinary. For instance.......many hunters noted that when compared with the 7X57 shooting 140 gr pills the 6.5 sweede shooting 140s was a notable difference. In the minds of many of these hunters that noted this strange 6.5 phenomenon the only satisfying answer from a physics standpoint had to be greater sectional density. It is my belief that sectional density is one important proponent of penetration and is useful though it is not the only proponent and there are other useful contributing factors such as weight and bullet construction.

Shod


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SD is a number. Long bullets have it....short bullets don't.

Construction and design takes over from there. I never read the numbers.I look at how the bullet is built.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
SD is a number. Long bullets have it....short bullets don't.



Simple statements like that have confused a lot of folks, including a number of gunwriters and even a few editors
Length, per se, has nothing to do with SD.
It is a ratio of bullet diameter ( sectional area ) to density ( weight)
A long copper, brass or zinc bullet will not have a greater SD than a lead bullet unless it weighs more.


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Originally Posted by 458Win
Originally Posted by BobinNH
SD is a number. Long bullets have it....short bullets don't.



Simple statements like that are the reason so many folks, including a lot of gunwriters and even a few editors, are so confused.
Length, per se, has nothing to do with SD.
It is a ratio of bullet diameter ( sectional area ) to density ( weight)
A long copper, brass or zinc bullet will not have a greater SD than a lead bullet unless it weighs more.


A little care is needed here. These are quadratically, not proportionally, related. So they won't behave the same in the SD ratio.

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Another bullet with relatively low SD with which I have experienced good performance is the .277 Speer 130gr Hot Cor. Early in my 270 "career" ('80s) I experienced a failure (bullet or me or both) with a bullet that has a reputation for being rather "soft", and it almost cost me a nice buck. In my quest to find a bullet that stood up better to the high velocity of my hot handloads, I found the Speer Hot Cor, and loved it. Last year I killed a nice big fat doe with that bullet from my Forbes 24B and it worked fantastic. I load that cartridge below max now (50gr W760) rather than leaning on the foot feed hard like I did back when I knew everything.


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Originally Posted by 458Win
Originally Posted by BobinNH
SD is a number. Long bullets have it....short bullets don't.



Simple statements like that have confused a lot of folks, including a number of gunwriters and even a few editors
Length, per se, has nothing to do with SD.
It is a ratio of bullet diameter ( sectional area ) to density ( weight)
A long copper, brass or zinc bullet will not have a greater SD than a lead bullet unless it weighs more.


Got it. Thanks!




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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For Elk, Deer, and Black Bear hunting I like to use cup and core bullets above a certain SD number so that I can use affordable bullets.

SD is a way to compare bullets in the worst case scenario, that is if they don't perform as advertised. As they said of the Russian tank corp during the cold war, quantity has a quality all its own, and SD measures quantity. It is very useful when you compare different calibers. For instance one of the reasons so many people don't like the 270 is because of the low SD of the 130 grain projectile.

I like to buy 500 of the same bullet at a time, then become very used to the trajectory of that bullet. I even discontinued 140 grain bullets in my 7X57 and use 170 grain Core-locs which were very affordable in bulk. Of course not everyone has 700 pieces of brass for their deer rifle, probably because of the budget busting expense of over priced bullets.

Even if I find a good deal on a "performance" bullet, like the Trophy Bear Claw Bondeds I am shooting in my .300 Weatherby, I still use a fairly high SD bullet. In that case 200 grain bullets.

I know lots of people who shoot very low quantities of big game rounds who spend insane amounts per bullet. To each their own.

One exception I have talked about before is my use of 180 grain Nosler Handgun Partions in the 35 Remington and 358 Winchester for Blacktail deer. Of course a 35 caliber bullet is pre-expanded for deer, and deer dont need much in the way of penetration, but I have never used that bullet when I had a bear tag with me. With this great bullet discontinued I won't be using them for that one purpose anymore. the 200 or so I have left will be used in my 357 Max.

Last edited by siskiyous6; 03/29/14.

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siskiyou: I understand.

I'm staring at a pair of 130 gr 270 Nosler Partitions dug from the off side hide of a very big bull elk....which I think illustrates the point I was trying to make about bullet construction/design.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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SD means dick..end of story

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Yeah, tell that to this guy...

[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Originally Posted by rosco1
SD means dick..end of story


Speaking of DICK...


Our God reigns.
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Originally Posted by siskiyous6
For Elk, Deer, and Black Bear hunting I like to use cup and core bullets above a certain SD number so that I can use affordable bullets.

SD is a way to compare bullets in the worst case scenario, that is if they don't perform as advertised. As they said of the Russian tank corp during the cold war, quantity has a quality all its own, and SD measures quantity. It is very useful when you compare different calibers. For instance one of the reasons so many people don't like the 270 is because of the low SD of the 130 grain projectile.

I like to buy 500 of the same bullet at a time, then become very used to the trajectory of that bullet. I even discontinued 140 grain bullets in my 7X57 and use 170 grain Core-locs which were very affordable in bulk. Of course not everyone has 700 pieces of brass for their deer rifle, probably because of the budget busting expense of over priced bullets.

Even if I find a good deal on a "performance" bullet, like the Trophy Bear Claw Bondeds I am shooting in my .300 Weatherby, I still use a fairly high SD bullet. In that case 200 grain bullets.

I know lots of people who shoot very low quantities of big game rounds who spend insane amounts per bullet. To each their own.

One exception I have talked about before is my use of 180 grain Nosler Handgun Partions in the 35 Remington and 358 Winchester for Blacktail deer. Of course a 35 caliber bullet is pre-expanded for deer, and deer dont need much in the way of penetration, but I have never used that bullet when I had a bear tag with me. With this great bullet discontinued I won't be using them for that one purpose anymore. the 200 or so I have left will be used in my 357 Max.


I'm in the same camp on this one, bro.


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Originally Posted by BobinNH
siskiyou: I understand.

I'm staring at a pair of 130 gr 270 Nosler Partitions dug from the off side hide of a very big bull elk....which I think illustrates the point I was trying to make about bullet construction/design.


I am not saying expensive bullets wont kill animals,I am just saying a little understanding of SD goes a long way toward letting you use inexpensive bullets. I have never recovered a 175 grain 7mm from an elk.


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I have been reading this forum for a long, long time. It occurs to me that the obvious is being overlooked.

On the one hand, we have the 30-06. It is supposedly overkill on whitetail deer. On the other hand, you have the 270 Winchester-- nice round, but the [bleep] that use it find that it bounces off the deer and falls to the ground harmlessly.

How can a bullet of identical weight, etc. be overly effective in one chambering and so disastrously ineffective in the other? The only thing that I can figure is the sectional density, right?

Please let Steve Redgwell know that I will be applying soon for entrance to the Redgwell Institute of Advanced Outdoor Studies to begin my fellowship.



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No, no, no. Two calibers with the same weight bullets? Smaller bore with have a longer bullet (most likely) and thus a higher propensity for epicyclic swerve due to increased pitching moments. The result is inverse to the cube root of a gnat's azz with the subterranean intabulator in the auto mode. Furthermore, this circumstance increases the probability of a tricyclic or even quadracyclic precession, both of which may lead to projectile dysfunction (bullets bouncing off).

It really is simple, I don't know why so many have difficulty with the concept. Steve will help you out no doubt.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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