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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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Truth vs Legend, we have some astute scholars of history here, how has Hollywood gotten it wrong?
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They used black powder. That alley would have looked like a rain cloud was sitting in it by then of that deal.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday? whatever..
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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When I was in the Army back in 1968, I went over there and looked at the place. They had signs up that said "so and so was shot here", and had a mock-up of the OK corral. I was surprised at how small the thing was, assuming it was close to correct. It is a wonder that anyone lived. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't think there were any 'good guys' involved
Sam......
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In 'Tombstone' they could get 20+ shots out of six shot revolvers.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't think there were any 'good guys' involved This x10 Two old west mafia groups or "gangs"
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Campfire Regular
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As in all stories and myths, there are winners and losers. The Earps and friends won the day but all participants were crooks, thieves and murderers. The stuff legends are made of.
I do enjoy the two latest iterations; Kurt Russell and Kevin Costner versions. You can just smell the smoke!
The things that come to those that wait may be the things left by those who got there first.
Unk
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They used black powder. That alley would have looked like a rain cloud was sitting in it by then of that deal.
I believe there was a total of 17 shots fired. The incident took less then 2 minutes and to make a movie of 2 minutes last almost 2 hours, does take some license in creative writing. The whole Earp vs the cowbys scenario in Tombstone at that time had a very interesting twist to which side of which law enforcement agency you supported. Earns were backed by the more conservative politics in Tombstone with the Epitaph backing them, while the cowboys, Behan and others were like minded in their thinking. Lawlessness then was subjective and the town of Tombstone did want what the Earps provided, but we're not appreciative of how that was accomplished. The line between good and bad wasn't that clear, but the dislike of each side for the other allowed frontier justice to play out in a way and time that we can't understand today. The fact that sometimes people need to be shot still exists today, we just can't do it with impunity today like they could in the 1880's...
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/G9RDVKXr/DSCN4329.jpg)
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
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"Getting it right" isn't as entertaining.
The Gunfight at OK Corral wasn't even much of a noted gunfight in history until 2-3 years after Wyatt's death in 1929. At that time, a book came out about his part in the gunfight, and it was then sensationalized by the Hollywood crowd.
Most accounts today make the Earps out to be upstanding lawmen and heroes. As is the case with most frontier lawmen, they were a mix of good and bad. Both in deed, and in person.
MolΙΜΛn LabΓ© SkΓ½la!
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Goddammit, you ph*cks are messing the movie up for me. . . . . . Bye
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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A lot of the legends came from the dime novels that were so popular in those days.
Then I remember as a kid in the 50's & 60's, we could sit down 5 nights a week for 4 straight hours of TV westerns, one after another. Every one had good guys and bad guys. 'Wyatt Earp' was one of them and Earp was cast as the ultimate good guy. TV has never been known for historical accuracy.
βIn a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.β
β George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Ranger
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I believe one of the most egregious errors in the movies was how Wyatt supposedly hunted down a dozen or so men after one of his brothers was ambushed and the other killed.
Johnny Ringo's death was odd to say the least, but there is no evidence that Wyatt or Holiday had anything to do with it.
It does appear that he killed 1 or possibly two people associated with that group.
Makes for a good movie though.
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Whiskey and guns ,we will never know the fact..
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Campfire Outfitter
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A recent book by Jeff Guinn, The Last Gunfight, is a very well-researched and very readable account of the Earps, Tombstone and the events associated with the gunfight. Politics and a clash of personalities were at the core of the conflict. All of this has been all but obscured over the years by, first by the Breakenridge and the Burns books, and later by various other treatments including a slew of movies. The production of Tombstone in 1993 and Wyatt Earp in 1994 reignited interest in the story and probably were the genesis of Casey Tefertiller's popular 1997 biography, Wyatt Earp: The Life Behind the Legend.
At the time of the gunfight, the conflict became important nationally due to the involvement of prominent financiers in Tombstone. These investments were necessary to keep the economy growing and those investments paying off. Wells Fargo also had a dog in the fight, as some of the "cowboy" faction had caused Wells Fargo to lose some money and suffer some bad publicity as result of a series of stage holdups, including the one that killed Bob Paul. Virgil Earp was a Wells Fargo agent, and through him the Earp faction had the company's support, financially as well as politically.
Last edited by mudhen; 03/29/14.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Here's a wikipedia account of Earp's vendetta ride. They killed 4. As they were chasing the cowboys, a larger posse was chasing them with murder warrants. This photo of Wyatt Earp in his hippy dippy hat doesn't look much like the movies. The Earp Vendetta Ride, lasting from March 20 to April 15, 1882, was a search by a federal posse for outlaw Cowboys, led by newly appointed Deputy U.S. Marshal Wyatt Earp. He was searching for men he held responsible for maiming his brother, Virgil (who was both a Deputy U.S. Marshal and Tombstone City Marshal at the time of his injury), and for assassinating his brother Morgan, an assistant U.S. Marshal. The Earps had been attacked in retaliation for the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral on October 26, 1881, in which the Earps and Doc Holliday killed three Cowboys. Wyatt formed a federal posse that searched southeast Cochise County, Arizona Territory for suspects in both Virgil's and Morgan's attacks whom the court had freed, owing in some cases to legal technicalities and in others on the strength of alibis provided by Cowboy confederates. Wyatt Earp, deciding he could not rely on civil justice, took matters into his own hands to hunt the men down and kill them.
The event that triggered the long ride, during which the Earp posse did not return to Tombstone, and after which they ultimately left the Territory forever, was the shooting death of Frank Stilwell in Tucson on March 20. Wyatt, his brother Warren, Doc Holliday, and two other deputies were escorting Virgil and his wife Allie to a California-bound train in Tucson, when Wyatt spotted Frank Stilwell lying in wait near the train. He and several men chased Stilwell down and killed him. The Tucson Justice of the Peace issued warrants for the arrest of the five men suspected of shooting Stilwell. The next day, Cochise County Sheriff Johnny Behan attempted to detain the Earps' federal posse in Tombstone, but they brushed him aside and rode out of town to find the other Cowboys implicated in the attacks.
At the same time deputy U.S. Marshal Wyatt Earp was riding as a federal posse, Behan formed a Cochise County sheriff's posse consisting of deputies Phineas "Phin" (or "Fin") Clanton, Johnny Ringo, and about twenty other Arizona ranchers and outlaws, with the purpose of serving the Stilwell murder arrest warrants against five members of the federal posse. The Behan posse never engaged the much smaller Earp posse, which not only received help from local businessmen and ranchers, but at one point during the pursuit even wrote a letter to a Tombstone newspaper taunting Behan and his men.
Carrying arrest warrants for Curly Bill Brocius and others, the federal posse ultimately killed four men, beginning with the shooting of Stilwell and ending with the killing of Brocius. The ride ended April 15 when the Earps and their associates rode out of Arizona Territory and headed for New Mexico Territory. ![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Earp83.JPG)
βIn a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.β
β George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Tracker
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Actually if you read up on the real events leading up to the shoot out there is a lot of correct stuff. And filmed in tombstone AZ. That wasn't a movie set. Although there are a lot of movie add lib . It was the most historically accurate version.
Johnny Ringo was found in the oak grove with 1 bullet to the head and 1 fired from his gun. The movie supports that but I seriously doubt there was a shoot out rather an assignation with a rifle from a distance. More than Likely from Doc or Wyatt. it was deemed a self inflicted.
Curly Bill did shoot Fred White in the street. Morgan did die on the pool table and Virgil did get shot in the back with a shotgun..
What the movie left out was the power struggle between Wyatt and Behan over Sherriff.
And look at a picture of Wyatt Earp.. Kert Russel looked pretty close and I loved Val Kilmer as Doc..
I'm your huckleberry............
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Campfire Ranger
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Hollywood couldn't sell the truth if it tried. Truth doesn't make good box office hits.
Count on it. Hollywood makes movies so they will make money, NOT so they will tell the truth.
But they are fun to watch, regardless.
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
Brother Keith
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Campfire Outfitter
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I believe one of the most egregious errors in the movies was how Wyatt supposedly hunted down a dozen or so men after one of his brothers was ambushed and the other killed.
Johnny Ringo's death was odd to say the least, but there is no evidence that Wyatt or Holiday had anything to do with it.
It does appear that he killed 1 or possibly two people associated with that group.
Makes for a good movie though.
The so-called "Vendetta Ride" resulted in the death of three of the "cowboy" faction: Frank Stillwell, (killed in Tucson) "Curly Bill" Brocius (killed in the gunfight at Iron Spring in the Sulfur Springs Valley) and Florentino Cruz ("Indian Charlie", killed at Pete Spencer's ranch). The movie Tombstone had to give Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday character a dramatic confrontation approximately equal to that of Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp killing Curly Bill Brocius, the latter scene based rather loosely on the fight at Iron Spring. Without it, Kilmer may have been inclined to pass on the movie.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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And look at a picture of Wyatt Earp.. Kert Russel looked pretty close and I loved Val Kilmer as Doc..
I'm your huckleberry............
Top Doc apparently used the huckleberry statement regularly but no one ever knew what he meant by it. The scene where he was dying in bed and looked at his bare feet in amazement did happen. He was amazed that he didn't die with his boots on after his wild life.
βIn a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.β
β George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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