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Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,673 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,673 Likes: 18 |
Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right. Both are wrong in different ways. Both are right in different ways.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Dec 2012
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2012
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SJB,
You're actually a lucky man on this stuff living where you do. Try living here........and that lifestyle paid for by a mixture of everything from ranching and oil/mining and subdividing and gov't work...............and hunting out west in the rural Rocky Mtn states for a lifetime..........................and then try to contend with this........WOW!
Confucius say: He who angers you.......controls you.
My Lifestance is one of Secular Humanism.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Sure....the State of Nevada.
That the turtles are still there, is proof positive that the action of the feds is not "about" turtles...it's about the unfettered expansion of federal authority over that of the state.
The big picture here is that there is something a lot more ominous than just cattle and turtles. You have a federal government out of control,and taking people's livlihoods away over "environmental" issues.The environmental nuts at the federal level don't want cattle on BLM land....they are finding reasons to eliminate them and it won't stop here.
Wait until they start doing it on private property....they will.
Another attack on traditional America. They are doing it on private property. A friend of mine had to have a bog turtle study done on 5 acres he wanted to subdivide off a larger tract. The study cost him $3000.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right. Both are wrong in different ways. Both are right in different ways. Exactly.
Montana MOFO
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No, permit reductions shouldn't be "forbidden". But when a reduction is made permanently, in this case as a result of environmental terrorism and not as a result of the lease-holder's actions, then that appears to be a taking to me. It most definitely reduced the value of the permit which was purchased and also on the subsequent value of the deeded portion of the ranching operation.
Just my layperson's perspective. I understand your stance. How can that be reconciled with the laws/rules/etc that the BLM is supposed to manage land by? The way I take what your saying is that the unless the permitee mucks up, the permit remains the same, giving grazing the priority for management of BLM lands. If that is the case, you ought to research the history of BLM Grazing Districts, some of which are still 'working'. Long story short, the Grazing Districts were established because those lands were found "to be chiefly valuable for grazing". That said, I think we can all agree to the interconnectedness of things on a landscape. Is the plight of species X (insert anything you want here) due to past or present grazing practices? If so, do you consider that to be the result of a lease-holder's actions which you state above is permissable to take action on their permit? Not ignoring your post. Am traveling and will respond a bit later. You have some good points and even better questions.
Montana MOFO
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who owns the land, clark co, nevada, or the US Gov?
is the man's graze permit/lease current?
from what i can tell, Bundy has been ruled against twice in federal court already?
i hope somebody doesn't get killed.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
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Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right. Both are wrong in different ways. Both are right in different ways. Truest post of the whole fiasco... Neither side garners much sympathy, and any way this goes it won't be a good outcome. One thing I've not seen is what was the rancher's track record before 1993? Did he graze more head than his lease allowed, and did that cause damage to a fragile part of this landscape? If he hadn't, and things there had remained static regarding range quality for Many years, this was nothing but a Federal agency with an agenda pushing the rancher out. Back in 1993 there was not all that much agenda-driven mischief, at least not by Obama era standards. I'm curious as to the scope of the whole story. We might find that Mormon Reid and Mormon Bundy had a long standing feud. The Clark County Mormon Mafia has existed for a loooong time, and there are old scores to settle, still.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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rockinbbar has done a COMPENDIUM of good posts regarding this mess, ....No BS , cut to the chase text.
....Patient fellow, too.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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One article said that Clark County purchased all of the available grazing permits in order to retire them.(for $375,000) The county itself is involved somehow in the desert tortoise reserve. If the Sheriff doesn't step in to stop this as the law enforcement authority, it will certainly look unsavory for a whole bunch of county officials as well. Your comment about the feuding factions of the Mormon mafia may very well have some merit. Don't forget, our governor gave up a lifetime appointment to a federal judgeship in order to run for governor of little 'ol Nevada. There's too much money at stake from water, grazing, and mineral rights to allow his to keep his permit. YMMV
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You must be a carpenter. You hit the nail right on the head.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire Outfitter
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You're using SPLC as a source? Wow, Isaac. These guys also don't think the Second Amendment means what it says. Don't dig yourself a hole.
Bundy's allotment was reduced to "save" the desert tortoise from supposed mortality by cows. Which was BS, but most judges have never smelled real BS. So now, BLM is shooting away a million dollars to the roundup contractors, AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE CLOSING THE BLM-RUN DESERT TORTOISE FACILITY which has a budget of about a million bucks a year. They can afford the roundup but not the breeding and research facility.
Never mind that while they are rounding up these evil cowz, the wild feral horses are flattening Iron County Utah because BLM will do nothing to get the horses off -- there's no place to put them, except on green leased pastures when the horses are sterilized and fed until they tip over from disease and old age.
Tell me how any of that makes sense. I agree it doesn't make sense, however that's more on the head of the folks in DC than the local BLM offices. The funding for impoundments and horse gathers has to come from DC. These are not apart of an offices regular budget. Many, many times everything to justify a horse gather can be in place but it can't happen with out DC approval/funding. My guess is that horse gather funding took a big hit with the last round of budget cuts to the agency. It's easy to turn your back on something as controversial as a horse gather in the name of budget cuts.
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Hmm. Hasn't paid his fees in almost 20 years. Owes over $1.0MM. Overgrazing public land allotment by 350 cattle.
I would fill helicopters with gunmen and kill all his cattle.
His a thief.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right. Both are wrong in different ways. Both are right in different ways. And it is appalling to think that about the fact that at least a half of the members here, not knowing any real facts, are so quick to side in with BLM.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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Campfire Outfitter
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And the government sympathizers here need to stay tuned and keep us posted as to the future of this property. Even you may not like the final outcome.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right. I'm in the same boat.  The only way I can see a fair and reasonable ending to this mess is a court injunction to stop the cattle round up and for the govt to step back and re-examine all the issues.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 783 |
Well, I've read all three threads posted, listened to the man himself on the radio, and heard god knows how many news blurbs about it, and I STILL don't have a freaking clue what's going on, and who's in the right. I'm in the same boat. The only way I can see a fair and reasonable ending to this mess is a court injunction to stop the cattle round up and for the govt to step back and re-examine all the issues. That went on for 20 years. I can't believe all you anarchists are siding with Bundy from facts you getting from the internet.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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Campfire Outfitter
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FOX news update. They didn't provide many details but the BLM has decided to pull out and discontinue the operation for the safety of their employees and the public.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I doubt that it is coincidence that as soon as a possible Harry Reid connection began to hit the airwaves, the plug was pulled.
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