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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well, then,...obviously they're not anarchists. Who really is an anarchist? I can't think of one single person on Earth that lives under that 'system'.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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understanding of AnCap is that they don't necessarily believe everything would be great without a state. They believe that whatever kind of society exists in a particular place, the state makes it worse than it would have been without one. According to Bristoe, this means that they are not, in fact, Anarchist.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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understanding of AnCap is that they don't necessarily believe everything would be great without a state. They believe that whatever kind of society exists in a particular place, the state makes it worse than it would have been without one. According to Bristoe, this means that they are not, in fact, Anarchist. You misunderstood Bristoe.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This one... 8. We�re not trying to win elections
Any libertarian who tells you he is trying to win an election is either lying to you about trying to win the election, lying to us about being a libertarian, or terribly misinformed. As far as we�re concerned, elections are a bad thing. We�re trying to end them, not win them.
The nature of the State is to make false promises to bait support from the people it victimizes. They promise to protect you from boogeymen, they promise to solve your economic problems, they promise to carry out the will of your deity. We see this as completely ridiculous, we know it will fail, and we know that most people are stupid enough to swallow it hook line and sinker, so we can�t compete with it in a popular vote.
Libertarians are anarchists, whether they realize it or not. Even the ones who are delusional enough to think that they are going to get elected and restore the bloody republic, are little more than useful idiots who are repeating anarchist propaganda for us through channels normally reserved for government. The goal is not to win your elections, the goal is to turn a large enough minority against the legitimacy of the State as to make its continued function impossible. So there�s absolutely no incentive to work with you in promoting candidates, which is the primary function of your political activity. You�re right when you say �No candidate is good enough� for us, no matter who runs for office we will tear him down because nobody has the right to be our ruler. There is a whole Libertarian Party...
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Very few today, I'd think.
But there's been several examples of societies existing in a state of anarchy in recent times.
Maybe not technically,...but for all practical purposes.
America's western frontier went for many years without being troubled by a centralized power.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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This one... 8. We�re not trying to win elections
Any libertarian who tells you he is trying to win an election is either lying to you about trying to win the election, lying to us about being a libertarian, or terribly misinformed. As far as we�re concerned, elections are a bad thing. We�re trying to end them, not win them.
The nature of the State is to make false promises to bait support from the people it victimizes. They promise to protect you from boogeymen, they promise to solve your economic problems, they promise to carry out the will of your deity. We see this as completely ridiculous, we know it will fail, and we know that most people are stupid enough to swallow it hook line and sinker, so we can�t compete with it in a popular vote.
Libertarians are anarchists, whether they realize it or not. Even the ones who are delusional enough to think that they are going to get elected and restore the bloody republic, are little more than useful idiots who are repeating anarchist propaganda for us through channels normally reserved for government. The goal is not to win your elections, the goal is to turn a large enough minority against the legitimacy of the State as to make its continued function impossible. So there�s absolutely no incentive to work with you in promoting candidates, which is the primary function of your political activity. You�re right when you say �No candidate is good enough� for us, no matter who runs for office we will tear him down because nobody has the right to be our ruler. There is a whole Libertarian Party... Two points: 1) The Libertarian Party isn't any more the standard for libertarianism than the Republican Party is the standard for republicanism, and 2) You're conflating libertarianism with anarchism. Anarcho Capitalists are a subgroup of libertarians only.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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understanding of AnCap is that they don't necessarily believe everything would be great without a state. They believe that whatever kind of society exists in a particular place, the state makes it worse than it would have been without one. According to Bristoe, this means that they are not, in fact, Anarchist. You misunderstood Bristoe. What did I misunderstand? Anarchy is simply the lack of government in a society. Yet, Anarchist join political parties whose purpose is to elect Government officials.
Well, then,...obviously they're not anarchists. They're confused about what the term means,...as are many who are participating in this thread.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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This one... 8. We�re not trying to win elections
Any libertarian who tells you he is trying to win an election is either lying to you about trying to win the election, lying to us about being a libertarian, or terribly misinformed. As far as we�re concerned, elections are a bad thing. We�re trying to end them, not win them.
The nature of the State is to make false promises to bait support from the people it victimizes. They promise to protect you from boogeymen, they promise to solve your economic problems, they promise to carry out the will of your deity. We see this as completely ridiculous, we know it will fail, and we know that most people are stupid enough to swallow it hook line and sinker, so we can�t compete with it in a popular vote.
Libertarians are anarchists, whether they realize it or not. Even the ones who are delusional enough to think that they are going to get elected and restore the bloody republic, are little more than useful idiots who are repeating anarchist propaganda for us through channels normally reserved for government. The goal is not to win your elections, the goal is to turn a large enough minority against the legitimacy of the State as to make its continued function impossible. So there�s absolutely no incentive to work with you in promoting candidates, which is the primary function of your political activity. You�re right when you say �No candidate is good enough� for us, no matter who runs for office we will tear him down because nobody has the right to be our ruler. There is a whole Libertarian Party... The Libertarian party isn't representative of todays libertarians. In fact, there's quite a bit of conflict between the Campaign for Liberty bunch and the Libertarian party. The Ron Paul, Tom Woods, Peter Schiff type of libertarians don't even bother to acknowledge the Libertarian party. The Libertarian party is representative of the beltway libertarian crew,..as is The Cato Institute. They are, and always have been posers.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Very few today, I'd think.
But there's been several examples of societies existing in a state of anarchy in recent times.
Maybe not technically,...but for all practical purposes.
America's western frontier went for many years without being troubled by a centralized power. Maybe a few isolated Amazon tribes or African bushmen, these days.
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
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This one... 8. We�re not trying to win elections
Any libertarian who tells you he is trying to win an election is either lying to you about trying to win the election, lying to us about being a libertarian, or terribly misinformed. As far as we�re concerned, elections are a bad thing. We�re trying to end them, not win them.
The nature of the State is to make false promises to bait support from the people it victimizes. They promise to protect you from boogeymen, they promise to solve your economic problems, they promise to carry out the will of your deity. We see this as completely ridiculous, we know it will fail, and we know that most people are stupid enough to swallow it hook line and sinker, so we can�t compete with it in a popular vote.
Libertarians are anarchists, whether they realize it or not. Even the ones who are delusional enough to think that they are going to get elected and restore the bloody republic, are little more than useful idiots who are repeating anarchist propaganda for us through channels normally reserved for government. The goal is not to win your elections, the goal is to turn a large enough minority against the legitimacy of the State as to make its continued function impossible. So there�s absolutely no incentive to work with you in promoting candidates, which is the primary function of your political activity. You�re right when you say �No candidate is good enough� for us, no matter who runs for office we will tear him down because nobody has the right to be our ruler. There is a whole Libertarian Party... Two points: 1) The Libertarian Party isn't any more the standard for libertarianism than the Republican Party is the standard for republicanism, and 2) You're conflating libertarianism with anarchism. Anarcho Capitalists are a subgroup of libertarians only. That's my point. Barak put up the statement that libertarians are anarchist. I am saying that there are libertarians among the Libertarians just as there are republicans among the Republicans.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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This one... 8. We�re not trying to win elections
Any libertarian who tells you he is trying to win an election is either lying to you about trying to win the election, lying to us about being a libertarian, or terribly misinformed. As far as we�re concerned, elections are a bad thing. We�re trying to end them, not win them.
The nature of the State is to make false promises to bait support from the people it victimizes. They promise to protect you from boogeymen, they promise to solve your economic problems, they promise to carry out the will of your deity. We see this as completely ridiculous, we know it will fail, and we know that most people are stupid enough to swallow it hook line and sinker, so we can�t compete with it in a popular vote.
Libertarians are anarchists, whether they realize it or not. Even the ones who are delusional enough to think that they are going to get elected and restore the bloody republic, are little more than useful idiots who are repeating anarchist propaganda for us through channels normally reserved for government. The goal is not to win your elections, the goal is to turn a large enough minority against the legitimacy of the State as to make its continued function impossible. So there�s absolutely no incentive to work with you in promoting candidates, which is the primary function of your political activity. You�re right when you say �No candidate is good enough� for us, no matter who runs for office we will tear him down because nobody has the right to be our ruler. There is a whole Libertarian Party... Two points: 1) The Libertarian Party isn't any more the standard for libertarianism than the Republican Party is the standard for republicanism, and 2) You're conflating libertarianism with anarchism. Anarcho Capitalists are a subgroup of libertarians only. That's my point. Barak put up the statement that libertarians are anarchist. I am saying that there are libertarians among the Libertarians just as there are republicans among the Republicans. Maybe,...but when you start using the Libertarian party as an example, it's obvious that you're not informed about todays libertarian movement. The old beltway libertarians have been kicking around D.C. for a long time. They have nothing to do with the grassroots libertarian movement.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So, to sum up, libertarians are not Libertarians, and anarchist are not Libertarians, and Anarchist Capitalist aren't anarchist, but they are Libertarians....
Well that's simple.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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My understanding of AnCap is that they don't necessarily believe everything would be great without a state. They believe that whatever kind of society exists in a particular place, the state makes it worse than it would have been without one. According to Bristoe, this means that they are not, in fact, Anarchist. You misunderstood Bristoe. What did I misunderstand? Bristoe didn't say anything that contradicted what I said above.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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So, to sum up, libertarians are not Libertarians, and anarchist are not Libertarians, and Anarchist Capitalist aren't anarchist, but they are Libertarians....
Well that's simple. Paulians are the new libertarians which sprung up around the campaign of Ron Paul. Some of them are anarchists,..some aren't. It's not complicated.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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So, to sum up, libertarians are not Libertarians, and anarchist are not Libertarians, and Anarchist Capitalist aren't anarchist, but they are Libertarians....
Well that's simple. You're trying to make it sound complicated when it's not, or shouldn't be to someone with normal intelligence willing to pay attention for a few minutes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Maybe,...but when you start using the Libertarian party as an example, it's obvious that you're not informed about todays libertarian movement. You must have missed my comment about Rothbard's writings. I've read most of the stuff many of you guys suggest. I just don't think that it holds water when confronted with human nature, especially in regards to aggression.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Maybe,...but when you start using the Libertarian party as an example, it's obvious that you're not informed about todays libertarian movement. You must have missed my comment about Rothbard's writings. I've read most of the stuff many of you guys suggest. I just don't think that it holds water when confronted with human nature, especially in regards to aggression. You have a limited definition of aggression.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You boys need to lighten up. I know that this isn't overly complicated. I'm just making light of the terms at play when you say them out loud.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Ranger
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Maybe,...but when you start using the Libertarian party as an example, it's obvious that you're not informed about todays libertarian movement. You must have missed my comment about Rothbard's writings. I've read most of the stuff many of you guys suggest. I just don't think that it holds water when confronted with human nature, especially in regards to aggression. You have a limited definition of aggression. I used his definition.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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*shrugg*
I'm being light about it.
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