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Been thinkin' about this. I think Hackworth's comparision to the former Soviet Union isn't valid.
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<br>The USSR, with all it's flaws, had RATIONAL leaders who were largely in control of rational people. They all wanted to LIVE and improve their lot in life. Because they were rational, deterrence worked--they knew they couldn't attack the US because our retaliation would be severe.
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<br>The terrorists are different all togther. While the leaders may be rational, their goals are different. They seem more bent on destroying us than they care about improving the lives' of their people. As we've seen, the followers are certainly not rational. To that end, The threat of death and destruction to them is not a deterrent to terrorists. The threat of economic sanctions is not a deterrent either.
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<br>Since deterrence does not work against terrorism, what should we do? How can we effectively stop them from hurting us? I think our president is on the right track. We hunt down and kill any terrorists we find, we destroy their facilities and equipment, we freeze their assets. Those actions seem to be effective in stopping the current crop of terrorists, but it will not keep future terrorists from developing.
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<br>I think the way we keep future terrorists from developing is by making it extremely difficult for them to get support. Make it impossible for them to find countries that will harbor them--because those countries know the consequences of harboring and supporting terrorists. We do that by going after those countries NOW that support/harbor terrorists. Like "W" said, "either you are for us, or you are for the terrorists"--or something to that effect. Afghanistan was the proper first step, but we need to be consisitent with our president's theme and take this conflict to the next level.
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<br>We will be alone on this. After all, Europe has been very tolerant of terrorists. Because the Europeans didn't "nip this in the bud" when they had the chance, they are now afraid and thus impotent to do anything about it. It is up the the USA. Only by fully implementing our president's plan can we sucessfully combat terrorism.
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<br>Blaine

Blaine I got an idea and you being a fly boy you could probably help me with it. You are right about the terrorists not being rational and we are not being attacked by Swedish Lutherans either. How about rigging up lard bombs. You know rendered hog fat. Rig up one of your big transports to spray lard like they did agent orange in vietnam. Pigs are unclean and contact with pork is forbidden or and you don't get to go to where ever it is good martyrs go if you are full of unclean. Most all that part of the world in desert and short on water. Spray the horde with lard and they are all searching for water to ablute or dry clean or what ever to get lard off. Put their minds on something else. You and I know that being greasy with lard is just uncomfortable but it would blow their minds. If I read history correct one of the causes of the Sepoy rebellion in India in the 19th centery was the rumor that the enfield rifle cartridges were lubricated with pig fat. Can't you just see a load of the taliban rolling around in the sand covered with lard trying to get it off and be clean again.
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<br>BCR

BCR,
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<br>Great idea! We could get the Wyoming Guard with their C-130s that are equipped with the system to spray retardant over forest fires. We send them to the Middle East loaded up with pig lard and drop over enemy troops. We follow the lard with a leaflet drop telling them what they were just hit with. Talk about psychological warfare............
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<br>Blaine

Blaine (Sir),
<br>I think Hack's point is valid because he is talking about Iraq, not the terrorists. If we keep the conversation regarding terrorists I can only agree. We have made significant inroads into the Phillipines since 9/11, we currently have better relations with them than well before we pulled out. But in reality we all know Iraq really isn't high on the list, Syria, Iran, Libya all support many more terrorists than Iraq. This just doesn't smell right yet. You can read my previous posts and see what I feel should be done. Saddam is great at playing brinksmanship and really is a two-bit barking dog, if we give him the out he will back down without biting. All he wants to do is retain his power, even if it is weakened.
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<br>BCR,
<br>Trust me, they'll eat pork if it's all they have, I've seen it. In 1991 our unit guarded 7000 Iraqis in 9 days and the only food many had for the first 2 was the MRE's the Marines gave them when captured. I saw them eat the pork meals knowing full well what they were. I realize your post may have been tongue-in-cheek, but they aren't that religious, otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they are.
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<br>All war is political, it is an attempt by one nation to bend another to it's will through force of arms. Once one understands that the epiphany occurs. We don't fight for Mom, Apple Pie and the Flag, at it's most basic we fight for our brothers (and sisters) and are sent there to keep the current establishment in power.
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<br>Good Luck,
<br>Bob
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Sic-em Blaine, we are on the same side. Back when I was AF we were being taught the ground pounders were ending their struggle because high tec weapons were on the way. A nuke can clear many cities or areas, the grunts have a much easier job. When the gauntlet is thrown, strike quick before opposition has time to prepair. Look at the caves in Afganistan dug by premeative means, what do you think Saddam is doing? I'm sure he's not installing warning sirens only. There are several oil rich countries in that area that support our opposition and I suppect Ben is in one of them living like he always did amoung friends. -- no

Gunny,
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<br>Good point. I guess with Iraq, it will come down to how much we trust our current administration. I believe we do need compelling evidence before expanding the ongoing conflict, but revealing such evidence publicly may put our operatives already in the field at risk.
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<br>To be honest, I think the whole Iraq thing could have been handled differently well before the Gulf War. I think the invasion of Kuwait could have been prevented by diplomatic efforts had we engaged at the right time. of course, all that is meaningless now.........
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<br>Also, the (sir) isn't really necessary here. I have the utmost respect for you and your Marines and what you have done on the ground. Though I am not flying a Herk at present, I am a C-130 driver. USAF C-130 crews and Marines seem to watch out for each other. You can count on this: when the LZ is too hot and everyone else has bailed, a USAF C-130 crew will figure out a way to get you out. We've done this before........
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<br>Blaine

Just a little "tag-on" here.
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<br>I think we've finally got this thread on the right track.
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<br>We either sit on our dumb asses and wait for something "reeaaallly bad" to happen, or we hit some of those SOB's first.
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<br>"Vengeance is Mine", sayeth The Lord"
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<br>"Revenge is Mine", sayeth I.
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<br>Let God figure it out!
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<br>2D

I think "terminate with extreme prejudice" would be a good way to handle the terrs.
<br>I think that some would never be missed if they just "disappeared" quietly in the night.
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<br>Using our power is one thing, flaunting it to the world is a different matter. I still believe that the cost of starting a war will be very dear indeed. Both in terms of lives and and loss of world respect. We are riding high right now since "Desert Sheild/Storm" plus we have much world sympathy for our losses on 9/11/01. Lets use that to hunt down and deal with the TRUE perpetrators of the attack here, rather than seeking scapegoats to satisfy our blood lust.
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I don't want another day like yesterday, or a year ago! If it has to be, let it be held "over there". Make a statement at the United Nations laying down the rules, shake some trees, and be ready to back it up. We have no esteem any where in the world through "may I" politics. We need another Teddy Roosevelt or John Kennedy to look them in the eye and say what we mean. We have become the big "Oaf", with a pocket full of candy, picked on by every little dictator around the world. How is a world leader supposed to act? Like a doctor or patient? -- JMHO -- no
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<br>After all the blood, sweat, tears, and money, I'm still mad our leaders gave away the Panama Canal.
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<br>Our Southern border is attacked every night by illegal aliens pouring into this country to take American jobs, have babys and get on welfare and free education we pay for. The money they make is sent back to Mexico. Our government can't stop it, we see it on TV. The border patrol catch them, send them back to Mexico, they return the next night. Put them in a chain gang repairing our roads, building bridges, working on rail lines for public transportation for five years and see how fast the border cleans up. The jobs they would take from construction would off set the other jobs we loose and most of the construction jobs are not operating because of lack of funds. -- How's that for a solution? Let an American get caught in Mexico and it takes an act of congress or much bribe money to get them out of jail.

Hooray for Bush, he stood up in front of the United Nations, gave a run down of Saddams short commings and said if they don't fix it, the USA would. Now let's see who does what. Saddam is on notice, what will he do? He has defied the UN and they never did a thing, what will they do if we take action on our own? The UN leader said it would be bad for US to act without the UN. Ha Ha --- I like Bush more all the time if he does what he says he will do. -- no

need one,
<br>I find it amusing that you and I don't see eye-to-eye on how quickly to go to war, yet we have similar feelings on Pres. Bush's speech to the UN.
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<br>You're right, he laid the responsibility squarely upon Saddam and the UN. I believe by doing this, and the next step with the Security Council, we will lay the foundation for any further action.
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<br>Only time will tell, but I still hold to the feeling that Saddam will give once he knows we (plus any allies we can muster) mean what we say.
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<br>Good Luck,
<br>Bob
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And I sincerely hope you are right. If we have to end up kicking his ass, I hope we do it with swift and total dedication. No fooling around once we start, take him and his minions out with "Extreme Prejudice"

Need One, I think Pres. Bush has the MOXY to get the job done. I just hope that our Congress will get behind him all the way, including the wishy washy types taking up space on the hill. I also hope and pray that the rest of the free world starts to realizes what a mistake it is to let this dictator Sadam go on doing as he as done for the passed 10 years.
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<br>You are correct in saying lets keep the fighting over on their shores. Hit them quick and hard! If the rest of the Arab world doesn't like it or takes offense to our actions, so be it, we can deal with them later down the road also.
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<br>In the last war in Sadam's country, our army was taken right up to the palace gates. The Arab nations got together I am told, behind closed doors and decided that Sadam was to be spaired. So another meeting was held behind closed doors inorder to tell the US delegates to STOP any further retalliation against Sadam.........simply pack up and go home. One of the reasons that our Gen. Swarskov (spelling) turned in his resignation. That was a big mistake made by our officials in giving those orders to him as far as I am concerned.
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<br>It is time for all our Liberal political Congressmen to take notice and back our President BUSH. Sadam has a known mental illness. Such a person you can't deal with rationally, it is impossible to do so. Trying to do so, puts us further at risk as a nation. Sadam needs to be taken out, along with his whole crew of military leaders.
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Here`s a Canadian slant on things. Isn`t it sort of like poking a hornets nest with a stick where Sadam is concerned? Why is Bush making sooooooooo much noise? Why didn`t he just send a special fource in and kill the SOB. In stead of all this hoop bla *JUST DO IT !*
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<br>The USA has given Sadam way too much time to dig in. Isn`t 11 years enough time to realize that Sadam or Osama aren`t going to play by any rules as we know it?
<br>Enough said.. Just go do them both!! And anybody that even looks like them!!!!

Dusty,
<br>Leaders all over the world don't want to get this assassiation thing started between themselves. That would be like sending their kids to the front line in a war. They all like it safe as possible. War, killing, dieing, is just for followers and peons that hold no esteem. Assassinations went out of vogue in the 13th and 14th century, of course I just read paperbacks, some day I hope to get into the hard covers where the real knowledge is and the big words. -- no

Need one,
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<br>I do agree that we don`t want to have to do things that way as for assasinations etc. One thing we all have to remember. Differant situations have differant solutions. What we have to remember is these ppl we are fighting , don`t play by the same rules as we do. Their thinking has been clouded by many years , centuries . All they see is hate for north america, or anybody else that`s differant than them. We must forget our morals and do what needs to be done. Get them before they get us. We need to find all ppl involved before life as we know it is gone for ever.
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<br>Dusty
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