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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
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Some people hate facts.
Read the link I provided earlier.
Look at the ammunition actually delivered versus what was advertised for.
I have no doubt this administration is using bulk straw purchases for DHS to drive up the cost and create shortages.
They're [bleep], but a lot of these agencies have been making ammunition purchases well before the current schitbird took office.
They just didn't use it as a form of illegal gun control.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,907 Likes: 11 |
Okay, here is the deal.
When the chit hits the fan we all on the same side right?
grin
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
Thats all i was after. Just the facts.
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
Here is an article in the Military Times that explains the purchase contracts, what has actually been purchased and what has just been advertised for. I'd like to see what the ammo requirements and purchases were for each agency before they became part of DHS and compare them to what they are buying now. That should shed some light. Military Times DHS Ammo Puchases I have a question about that article. What civilian training courses does one shoot 1800 rounds in a single weekend? DHS is a massive umbrella agency, with over 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel according to a DHS spokesperson. If we divide 90 million by 100,000, that means each agent gets 900 rounds per year to shoot. That isn�t a whole lot, considering that civilians going through handgun training courses sometimes shoot twice as many rounds � in a single weekend. Why don't we focus on what they did get. 900 rounds per year comes down to 75 per month. I don't think that is excessive. You'll have to contact the author to find out what training programs go through 1800 a weekend.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,388 |
It's if you feed me BS in one part of your article how can I believe any of the rest of it?
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913 |
Well, according to what I've read and already posted, 40,000 (approximate) belong to Customs and the Border Patrol. I'm pretty sure they're located at Ports of Entry and Border Patrol Stations.
I don't know how many uniformed personnel the Coast Guard employs, but I'm pretty sure they can be found on Coast Guard vessels, and bases.
Hope this answers at least part of your question.
So tell me, how many shotgun shells should DHS contract?
____________________
Thanks.
Still sounds like a shi#load of ammo in the aggregate.
I think it would ease a lot of peoples minds if they broke down the amount of ammo each agency/department gets and for what purpose. Also prior years use and average per year of agencies existence.
__________
Some of these agencies I wouldn't trust with a Barney Fife shotgun.
______________
As far as the TSA goes, form 'em in a circle and give them enough ammo until there is no more TSA.
Pardon the lack of quotes, damn ipad is doing what it feels like doing.
And typing on this mofo ain't easy.
My sincerest apologies.
I've listened to Senator Tester explain it. But personally, I'll take common sense and basic mathematics over anything somebody tells me. Consumables go quick. Just a fact of life. Travis Just to skew the numbers a little. Not every Member of the CG or Border Patrol carries or has a need to. Field guys , yes and also limited amount. Rear area military, no. Just MP's and a very limited amount. Training for these guys initial or ongoing would eat up some ammo. I see LEO at my range and they don't seem to shoot all that much, could be they are budget constrained or shooting personal ammo unlike the CG and BP.
It was Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver (SFC E-7)who said:
"No, no, I've got them right where I want them -- surrounded from the inside." http://www.macvsog.cc/1969.htm
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
If you wish to discredit the article, find where the facts are wrong regarding the ammunition purchase quantities and per agent yearly allotment.
I'll happily agree with you.
That is what the article is about, not the author's guess at how many rounds someone may use in civilian training programs.
Trying to state that the facts are wrong because he offers a silly opinion on civilian training programs is a little disingenuous.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366 |
Again, you do know that a branch of the Armed Services of the United States falls under the DHS umbrella, right? When the Coast Guard works over seas assisting in a war who supplies their ammunition and logistical support?
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Joined: Aug 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913 |
Here is one for you Watch4bear?
Under what administration were the agencies you mentioned given an enforcement arm?
Is this the first time they have bought ammunition?
Let me guess. GW Bush? Let me ask you, if the EPA and OSHA have enforcement arms, can you say "police state"? Won't mention BLM or DNR, wtf.
It was Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver (SFC E-7)who said:
"No, no, I've got them right where I want them -- surrounded from the inside." http://www.macvsog.cc/1969.htm
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,046 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,046 Likes: 1 |
there are none s blind as those that will not see.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913 |
there are none s blind as those that will not see. Thanks. Just what I needed a beating with a white cane. __________________ cock-a-doodle-doo 2014
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
Pur dept has 33 officers, both full time and part time. We qualify four times a year with carry ammo. And are given a 1,000 rounds annually for our own practice. With practic and carry ammo, our dept purchases 55,000 rounds a year, just in handgun ammo. Full time guys are given another thousand rounds for the M-4s and shotguns are"pool" guns. I don't know how much ammo we buy for them. But these numbers are just to put things into acope of what purchaing can be for agencies
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Pur dept has 33 officers, both full time and part time. We qualify four times a year with carry ammo. And are given a 1,000 rounds annually for our own practice. With practic and carry ammo, our dept purchases 55,000 rounds a year, just in handgun ammo. Full time guys are given another thousand rounds for the M-4s and shotguns are"pool" guns. I don't know how much ammo we buy for them. But these numbers are just to put things into acope of what purchaing can be for agencies I get the feeling some of y'all are not reading the article. That is up to you. However, it seems like reading it might help accurate commentary on it. There is more there than ammo purchases.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Again, you do know that a branch of the Armed Services of the United States falls under the DHS umbrella, right? When the Coast Guard works over seas assisting in a war who supplies their ammunition and logistical support? Depends
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,913 |
Pur dept has 33 officers, both full time and part time. We qualify four times a year with carry ammo. And are given a 1,000 rounds annually for our own practice. With practic and carry ammo, our dept purchases 55,000 rounds a year, just in handgun ammo. Full time guys are given another thousand rounds for the M-4s and shotguns are"pool" guns. I don't know how much ammo we buy for them. But these numbers are just to put things into acope of what purchaing can be for agencies That, is interesting and informative, as I can tell you my local PD in low crime suburb of approx 30,000 is equipped I'm guessing about the same. Will have to double check. I didn't get the meaning of "Pur dept", please edify. If you know, what salary range and how much does it cost your municipality for police protection? My one observation is that I'm in a low crime area. I lived in Chicago in a district with ever increasing daily crime because of dieversity YET we got less and less police protection. Get this. The explanation from the District Commander was that my district was "low crime" compared to other areas of the city and so we got less and less of the shrinking pie of police protection - so I moved my family out of there.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Pur dept has 33 officers, both full time and part time. We qualify four times a year with carry ammo. And are given a 1,000 rounds annually for our own practice. With practic and carry ammo, our dept purchases 55,000 rounds a year, just in handgun ammo. Full time guys are given another thousand rounds for the M-4s and shotguns are"pool" guns. I don't know how much ammo we buy for them. But these numbers are just to put things into acope of what purchaing can be for agencies That, is interesting and informative, as I can tell you my local PD in low crime suburb of approx 30,000 is equipped I'm guessing about the same. Will have to double check. I didn't get the meaning of "Pur dept", please edify. If you know, what salary range and how much does it cost your municipality for police protection? My one observation is that I'm in a low crime area. I lived in Chicago in a district with ever increasing daily crime because of dieversity YET we got less and less police protection. Get this. The explanation from the District Commander was that my district was "low crime" compared to other areas of the city and so we got less and less of the shrinking pie of police protection - so I moved my family out of there. I can only guess but I'm thinking he meant "our" and not "pur". "O" is next to "p" on most keyboards.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
Pur dept has 33 officers, both full time and part time. We qualify four times a year with carry ammo. And are given a 1,000 rounds annually for our own practice. With practic and carry ammo, our dept purchases 55,000 rounds a year, just in handgun ammo. Full time guys are given another thousand rounds for the M-4s and shotguns are"pool" guns. I don't know how much ammo we buy for them. But these numbers are just to put things into acope of what purchaing can be for agencies That, is interesting and informative, as I can tell you my local PD in low crime suburb of approx 30,000 is equipped I'm guessing about the same. Will have to double check. I didn't get the meaning of "Pur dept", please edify. If you know, what salary range and how much does it cost your municipality for police protection? My one observation is that I'm in a low crime area. I lived in Chicago in a district with ever increasing daily crime because of dieversity YET we got less and less police protection. Get this. The explanation from the District Commander was that my district was "low crime" compared to other areas of the city and so we got less and less of the shrinking pie of police protection - so I moved my family out of there. Pur was a typo. Should have been our. Our collective area of operations is a mix of very rural, and suburban/business district. We have the typical problems every other agency has. We have a finite budget that has to be spread out to cover everything in the dept. training and equipment are always the first things to take a hit. As far ad cost/per officer to the municipality, I don't know. What I can say is that our residents are generally happy with us, and want continue to want more of us, yet at the same time don't want taxes to go up. We have lost three full time slots due to retirement and one guy got hired on with another dept. at this time we have no plans to replace those officers. Instead we suppliment those time slots with part timers and overtime. We aren't high crime, but we have seen a rise in the past few years especially in break ins
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Military tends to be armed when boarding ships, chasing drug boats and providing port security in the Middle East. Weird I know, but that's how they tend to do shiet. The military uses hollow points? Sure Not the Army, Navy Marines or USAF to my knowledge. I have 110 guards here and we are only allowed to use 9mm ball.
Last edited by jorgeI; 04/23/14.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Travis, you crunched the numbers. 50,000 personnel, all with shotguns. Presuming each shoots 100 round per year, that is 5 million rounds of ammunition. If these are the people charged with protecting our borders, I sure hope that they all shoot more than 100 rounds of shotgun ammunition per year. I shoot twice that in an evening at the range. My numbers are purposely conservative. Travis I have 110 guards and we use about 60k of 9mm and 10k of 00 shotgun/ year for qualifying and currency. We use the Navy's range and I can tell you for a fact they throw close to 3M rounds downrange/year, ALL ball BTW.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,844
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,844 |
if a brick of 22's don't last the rest of your life you better find another way to get it done.
when my kids were small, they'd shoot a brick of 22s in just a couple trips to the cabin. Between morning and evening hunts, they'd sit on the porch and shoot a couple hundred shots each practically every day we were there.
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