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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Dec 2006
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Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,810 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,810 Likes: 5 |
It was a really dumb time to come out and get those cows. Let them drop all those calves and go get them this winter after they have grown up and gained some weight. It would have been better all the way around.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,901 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,901 Likes: 11 |
Is what really bothers me is the fact that they (negros) are wronged and chastised for taking a subsidy thrown to them, (the system make them slaves where they could be out picking cotton), but he has no clue he's in the same boat.
At least ol' Cliven was producing something of value and worth. He was actually working. That's all I'm going to say about 'race' on the internet. Should Cliven have paid his lease all the while fighting the Feds and their bullchit excuse to retire his lease(grazing)? Yes. Do I like the way the Federal gov't has been running for the last 20years? (since I started paying attention anyway..) No. Just cause you ain't paranoid don't mean they ain't out to get you......grin
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 |
It was a really dumb time to come out and get those cows. Let them drop all those calves and go get them this winter after they have grown up and gained some weight. It would have been better all the way around. everything about the whole mess could have been done better, but when you defy the courts, you do not get to choose how or when enforcement will be applied...
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I'll say right here what I said all along, Bundy is less wrong in all this than the government. I think the people who went out there and supported him did a great and commendable thing and I enjoyed seeing the government slapped down. I don't think he should have opened his mouth on the race issue and not only painted himself into a corner, but also made his supporters look bad, including one of the best chances we have, Rand Paul. Bundy's remarks are free speech though and they do nothing to alter the overall situation. The government is still more wrong than Bundy and it was still good to see some ragtag militiamen force them to retreat.
All the commie trolls on here can suck it!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 839
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 839 |
All the commie trolls on here can suck it!
One of the problems with that statement is........any cursory examination of the posts on this forum will show that the majority of the opposition to Bundy are definitely not "commie trolls". And that opposition was less about an over reach of government than the overt celebration of Bundy and his intentional position. There isn't any "high ground" to celebrate here. Pity is............there never was.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Which only confirms what dumbasses Bundy AND DD really is are.
For accuracy..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,606
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,606 |
exactly, this is nothing more than slight of hand leftist BS. rather than being the rancher the gov came to force off his land and he stood defiant, he is now the poster child for "racist right wing ranchers and farmers" the right is so gung ho on back peddling they missed the fact that the whole thing is a smoke and mirrors bit to hide the real truth in what happened. alienate Clive and you can go kill him with impunity because no one will stand beside him if they think they might be labeled a racist. most on here jump on that bandwagon proving why the right is weak. congrats to those who bowed to the race card again. we're screwed six ways from sunday. this was nothing more than a ploy to discredit him and all who stood with him. his land? your sig line seems to apply to this situation: "Everything happens for a reason, sometimes that reason is that you're stupid and make bad decisions." still Butt hurt I see, his grazing land, he held the right to graze it. not surprised you showed your ignorance by taking "his" to mean he owns it personally. talk to rachers who lease from the feds and they will use the same term often, along with theirs, hers and mine. maybe take a break for a while....
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 |
not 'his' land by any stretch, but twist it around any way you wish...
see, I have been one of those ranchers with a grazing lease for a good chunk of my life. never called it my land. (until we bought the land, anyway)
in the context of the statement 'the feds tried to force him from his land', that 'his' is huge. the only reason for the inaccuracy is to distort the facts or ignorance.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,606 |
you're the one twisting my friend. it's ok though. I deal with folks like you all the time. carry on
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
exactly, this is nothing more than slight of hand leftist BS. rather than being the rancher the gov came to force off his land and he stood defiant, he is now the poster child for "racist right wing ranchers and farmers" the right is so gung ho on back peddling they missed the fact that the whole thing is a smoke and mirrors bit to hide the real truth in what happened. alienate Clive and you can go kill him with impunity because no one will stand beside him if they think they might be labeled a racist. most on here jump on that bandwagon proving why the right is weak. congrats to those who bowed to the race card again. we're screwed six ways from sunday. this was nothing more than a ploy to discredit him and all who stood with him. his land? your sig line seems to apply to this situation: "Everything happens for a reason, sometimes that reason is that you're stupid and make bad decisions." still Butt hurt I see, his grazing land, he held the right to graze it. not surprised you showed your ignorance by taking "his" to mean he owns it personally. talk to rachers who lease from the feds and they will use the same term often, along with theirs, hers and mine. maybe take a break for a while.... When you sign a note on a loan for a house you refet to it as "yours" as well. However if you quit paying your mortgage payment. It quickly becoms the Bank's.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,606 |
I refer to my kids as "mine" as well but I do not own them.
just like the street in front of my house I will often refer to it as "our street" yet I do not actually believe that I personally own it.
I agree, now take the same house, someone forces you to live in only one room of it even though you have been living in all of it. you call BS and stay in the whole house and still keep trying to pay your mortgage but they refuse to take your money, fast forward 20 years then they come to kick you out for not paying for it.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,911 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,911 Likes: 2 |
what some of you yahoo's can't understand or accept is a guy speaking his mind without consulting the politically correct Gods. Around a campfire you can say W ever TF you want. A guy in Bundy's position right now; not so much.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,098 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,098 Likes: 6 |
There is no freedom as long as we have a nation state but that's besides the point. You keep putting words in my mouth so this ends the discussion. It should have ended before you started it by saying you agreed that black people in the US were better off as slaves. That's an ignorant, indefensible statement. Which is why you keep trying to change the subject. We're not talking about your political views or your slant on why there is no freedom. So why do you keep bringing that up?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 966
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 966 |
If I read this correctly, the guy (apparently) over-grazed by five or six times the land's carrying capacity on OUR public land, which hurts the land and wildlife, and then wants to freeload and not pay the unreasonably low fee? And we're supposed to be sympathetic?
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,529 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,529 Likes: 3 |
Oh boy, here we go.....again. Popcorn's a poppin!
FJB & FJT
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,659 Likes: 14
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,659 Likes: 14 |
If I read this correctly, the guy (apparently) over-grazed by five or six times the land's carrying capacity on OUR public land, which hurts the land and wildlife, and then wants to freeload and not pay the unreasonably low fee? And we're supposed to be sympathetic? Where do you see this? Just curious, because at 1000 acres per cow, even in the desert is pretty land friendly. It's kinda hard to stay in the ranching business for generations when you don't take care of the land, and especially the grass. Are you particularly familiar with ranching techniques in the desert? I have seen folks that ranched in other areas of the country come to the desert and buy a ranch and last 2-4 years before losing it due them trying to apply the same ranching techniques they used where they came from to where the desert ranch is.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 966
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 966 |
I was referring to this by JoeBob to Greyghost from 7:34 PM yesterday...
Originally Posted By: Greyghost What ever caused Bundy's problem with the government... it wasn't the cost of the grazing lease... he'd been paying it all along since they obtained it in 1954. And the rate had actually decreased by 40 percent from 1980 to 2004, while grazing fees charged by private ranchers increased by 78 percent for the same period.
His refusal to pay the fees apparently was only due to the BLM's management of the leases within the area, which he fully understood and agreed to... and which included nothing that wasn't voted into place by congress.
Was he too dumb to think that he could stop paying the fees all together suddenly and nothing would be done.
Apparently for nearly 20 years it worked, but in the long run he and his family is still going to loose.
Phil
(Joe Bob replies)... I don't think he lost. He got free grazing for 20 years on a herd five or six times the size he would have been allowed to have had he played by the rules the BLM set for him. Heck, his ranch is at least partially owned by a family trust, and not the revocable kind (although there is one of those too) so it might not even be subject to a judgment.
At this point, it is difficult to see a way that he comes out of this worse financially than he would have if he had reduced his herd to 150 animals in 1993.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
If I read this correctly, the guy (apparently) over-grazed by five or six times the land's carrying capacity on OUR public land, which hurts the land and wildlife, and then wants to freeload and not pay the unreasonably low fee? And we're supposed to be sympathetic? Where do you see this? Just curious, because at 1000 acres per cow, even in the desert is pretty land friendly. It's kinda hard to stay in the ranching business for generations when you don't take care of the land, and especially the grass. Are you particularly familiar with ranching techniques in the desert? I have seen folks that ranched in other areas of the country come to the desert and buy a ranch and last 2-4 years before losing it due them trying to apply the same ranching techniques they used where they came from to where the desert ranch is. Another poster registered in '12 who only has 79 posts. lol
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