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Joined: Feb 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What you are doing is rating bullets on your own "wish list" of bullet performance. The problem critters die from destroyed tissue and the resulting drop in blood pressure, not perfect mushrooms or two holes. Fine by me if that's what your into. I am into killing critters and right now. Then you denigrate a bullet with a 60+ year track record as one of the best and most reliable game killers made. This speaks volumes.
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
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So, The OP is "limited to Factory loads right now" I'd bet He's felt really left out for about the last 6 pages of this thread !
"Only Accurate Rifles are Interesting" (Colonel Townsend Whelen)
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
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So, The OP is "limited to Factory loads right now" I'd bet He's felt really left out for about the last 6 pages of this thread ! Are there not factory loaded BT's, Tsx, TTSX, Accubonds, partitions and other cup/core bullets available for the 300 win mag? Dink
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
A hematoma around the bullet hole.. If I shot it in the guts as you suggest how do you figure the lungs had a hematoma on them... Genius. I posted your picture of the lungs in question and there is simply no hole in them get a flicking grip and admit that your shot missed the lungs. I shot this deer and I also missed the heart and lungs. They were not damaged. Bullet entrance Exit Deer ran, but was easily recovered. I admit that because the deer was angled more than I thought I placed the shot incorrectly to hit the heart and/or lungs. I realized my error when I dressed out the deer. You should admit your error.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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Fairly sure you can find all the above in factory... you could at one point in 300 wtby for sure....
Bwalker
Which one has a 60 year history, simply curious. Partition? I"ll tell you, why don't you just ask JB, he'll tell you a 200 is fine, but a 180 is frangible. Just how it goes. Run a 200 partition, in a 300 mag and I'd be fine. But like I said, I found something that makes me even happier than that.
I"ll continue to strive for 2 holes and no risk.
But if I ever knew that a bullet could make it FOR SURE through any angle, bones and any distance shot at, and expend all its energy inside the animal, I could probably forgo the 2nd hole, though it always makes for better blood trail.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Posts: 15,308 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,308 Likes: 1 |
No dog in this fight, but my elk hunting partner has been using a Post 64 300 Win Mag since 65 I think. He has used the same load of 4350 and 180 PT's to take alot of elk since then, hunting between Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington since then. This past Fall after getting back to camp, he pulled an old pill bottle out of one of the drawers and showed me about 7 PT's he and his father recovered (father shot a 300WBY) from elk. I have no idea the number of elk taken since 65, but is alot and to only recover 7 is pretty good stuff. Every one of the bullets looked almost perfect, probably better than a water jug recovered PT. In his records, all elk were taken between 30 and 570 yards. Most all of them blow right on thru and leave a dead elk in their wake. I never doubted the 180 PT in a 300 Win, but after seeing and thinking about that, it really does lend itself to being a hard to beat combo.
I realize weird things happen out in the hunting fields every Fall, but I would bet a 180 PT stopping inside a deer is the exception and not the rule.
As for the OP, hopefully he has found a load to try out of his rifle. Plenty of great options with the Federal, Winchester, etc. Most all of them should be more than capable of handling elk..
Semper Fi
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,926 |
Elk killing threads are always entertaining.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,536
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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To the OP, Go enjoy your hunt with the blue box shells, with the .300 win mag. and 180 gr. bullets being almost the benchmark for elk hunting , you will be fine. Most people would be surprised at how many of the locals here kill elk with .243 and 25-06 factory loaded cup and core bullets. Not to mention .270s with 130s....................
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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So, The OP is "limited to Factory loads right now" I'd bet He's felt really left out for about the last 6 pages of this thread ! Are there not factory loaded BT's, Tsx, TTSX, Accubonds, partitions and other cup/core bullets available for the 300 win mag? Dink Yeah good point! That doesn't sound too "limiting" to me.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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No dog in this fight, but my elk hunting partner has been using a Post 64 300 Win Mag since 65 I think. He has used the same load of 4350 and 180 PT's to take alot of elk since then, hunting between Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington since then. This past Fall after getting back to camp, he pulled an old pill bottle out of one of the drawers and showed me about 7 PT's he and his father recovered (father shot a 300WBY) from elk. I have no idea the number of elk taken since 65, but is alot and to only recover 7 is pretty good stuff. Every one of the bullets looked almost perfect, probably better than a water jug recovered PT. In his records, all elk were taken between 30 and 570 yards. Most all of them blow right on thru and leave a dead elk in their wake. I never doubted the 180 PT in a 300 Win, but after seeing and thinking about that, it really does lend itself to being a hard to beat combo.
I realize weird things happen out in the hunting fields every Fall, but I would bet a 180 PT stopping inside a deer is the exception and not the rule.
As for the OP, hopefully he has found a load to try out of his rifle. Plenty of great options with the Federal, Winchester, etc. Most all of them should be more than capable of handling elk.. Im sure stopping in a deer is an exception. Except I"ve yet to stop a barnes bullet in anything that I can recall. I"m the motto of be prepared. If my once in a lifetime elk comes out quartering hard and about to leave... I want to make sure I can break the front bones, and get to the vitals and all the way through them. Cup and core have failed enough on things smaller than an elk and on some nilgai that for me it just makes sense, when the mono has never been retained, why risk anything else. Cost certianly isn't a factor and Partitions ain't cheap either. But in teh scheme of things any thing is cheap bullet wise. About to delve off into subsonic with a 300 whisper on deer and pigs. Pre frag bullets ain't cheap, order of a buck each. But they'll always open even at slow speeds. Who cares about a dollar a piece. I've seen 22lr offered for a dollar a shell too... not that anyone would pay that... but point is cost should never be a consideration. Beyond that I fail to see the down of using a mono bullet and if you need DRT, then just break the bones like some folks do.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Posts: 743
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Campfire Regular
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180g Nosler Partitions in 300 WM is failsafe IMHO. I have used that bullet to make one shot kills on everything from cow/bull elk to large black bear, mule deer, feral hogs, sheep, etc. at ranges from 20 feet to 300+ yards. Penetration is great, weight retention is great and they knock the snot out of big game animals. My experience outside of that bullet is limited as I've NEVER had a reason to try anything else except a box or two of factory fodder when I did not or could not get my Nosler Partitions� but those killed just as well. Make a good first shot and it likely won't matter.
Foxx...
God Bless America!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
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A hematoma around the bullet hole.. If I shot it in the guts as you suggest how do you figure the lungs had a hematoma on them... Genius. I posted your picture of the lungs in question and there is simply no hole in them get a flicking grip and admit that your shot missed the lungs. I shot this deer and I also missed the heart and lungs. They were not damaged. Bullet entrance Exit Deer ran, but was easily recovered. I admit that because the deer was angled more than I thought I placed the shot incorrectly to hit the heart and/or lungs. I realized my error when I dressed out the deer. You should admit your error. The only problem is thats not what happened at all. The deer was double lunged..
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Fairly sure you can find all the above in factory... you could at one point in 300 wtby for sure....
Bwalker
Which one has a 60 year history, simply curious. Partition? I"ll tell you, why don't you just ask JB, he'll tell you a 200 is fine, but a 180 is frangible. Just how it goes. Run a 200 partition, in a 300 mag and I'd be fine. But like I said, I found something that makes me even happier than that.
I"ll continue to strive for 2 holes and no risk.
But if I ever knew that a bullet could make it FOR SURE through any angle, bones and any distance shot at, and expend all its energy inside the animal, I could probably forgo the 2nd hole, though it always makes for better blood trail.
The front half of the partition was designed to be frangible because that leads to quick kills without the Barnes sprint. The flat work and are one of the deepest penetrating bullets made.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
No dog in this fight, but my elk hunting partner has been using a Post 64 300 Win Mag since 65 I think. He has used the same load of 4350 and 180 PT's to take alot of elk since then, hunting between Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington since then. This past Fall after getting back to camp, he pulled an old pill bottle out of one of the drawers and showed me about 7 PT's he and his father recovered (father shot a 300WBY) from elk. I have no idea the number of elk taken since 65, but is alot and to only recover 7 is pretty good stuff. Every one of the bullets looked almost perfect, probably better than a water jug recovered PT. In his records, all elk were taken between 30 and 570 yards. Most all of them blow right on thru and leave a dead elk in their wake. I never doubted the 180 PT in a 300 Win, but after seeing and thinking about that, it really does lend itself to being a hard to beat combo.
I realize weird things happen out in the hunting fields every Fall, but I would bet a 180 PT stopping inside a deer is the exception and not the rule.
As for the OP, hopefully he has found a load to try out of his rifle. Plenty of great options with the Federal, Winchester, etc. Most all of them should be more than capable of handling elk.. Im sure stopping in a deer is an exception. Except I"ve yet to stop a barnes bullet in anything that I can recall. I"m the motto of be prepared. If my once in a lifetime elk comes out quartering hard and about to leave... I want to make sure I can break the front bones, and get to the vitals and all the way through them. Cup and core have failed enough on things smaller than an elk and on some nilgai that for me it just makes sense, when the mono has never been retained, why risk anything else. Cost certianly isn't a factor and Partitions ain't cheap either. But in teh scheme of things any thing is cheap bullet wise. About to delve off into subsonic with a 300 whisper on deer and pigs. Pre frag bullets ain't cheap, order of a buck each. But they'll always open even at slow speeds. Who cares about a dollar a piece. I've seen 22lr offered for a dollar a shell too... not that anyone would pay that... but point is cost should never be a consideration. Beyond that I fail to see the down of using a mono bullet and if you need DRT, then just break the bones like some folks do. If I had to shoot an animal in the azz I wold go for breaking its pelvic girdle to set myself up for a follow up shot. Shooting for the front end from the rear end is pretty dicey for alot of reasons.Of course I might just hold off the trigger rather than took a crap shoot of a shot.
Last edited by BWalker; 04/26/14.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
A hematoma around the bullet hole.. If I shot it in the guts as you suggest how do you figure the lungs had a hematoma on them... Genius. I posted your picture of the lungs in question and there is simply no hole in them get a flicking grip and admit that your shot missed the lungs. I shot this deer and I also missed the heart and lungs. They were not damaged. Bullet entrance Exit Deer ran, but was easily recovered. I admit that because the deer was angled more than I thought I placed the shot incorrectly to hit the heart and/or lungs. I realized my error when I dressed out the deer. You should admit your error. The only problem is thats not what happened at all. The deer was double lunged.. No your deer was not double lunged, your own picture of the lungs proves you miissed the lungs. Geez.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
Your picture of the heart and lungs of the deer in question. There is no double lung shot and that is the picture that you took
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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Your picture of the heart and lungs of the deer in question.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
The only piece of relevant info one can derive from this picture - IMO anyway- is that the ribcage was compromised seriously enough, either through a large hole in the ribs, or through the diaphragm, or both. This caused the lungs to lose the ability to re-inflate. (A hole through the lungs does not usually cause them to deflate in their entirety unless the damage is massive.) The animal in question might easily have been double lunged but it was inability to re-inflate those lungs that caused it to die most likely. IOW it suffocated.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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