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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
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There is alot of condescension toward the magnum cartridges and those who like them within the shooting ranks. I'm a neutral observer on the subject beings that I have never hunted with a magnum cartridge before. I've owned them in .257, 7mm, .300, and .350 but my 200 yards and under hunting has never been a good fit for them. I did take my 7 along on a moose hunt but didn't take it the first morning and ended up filling my tag with my .450 Marlin, which although belted is no magnum. Still I can appreciate a magnum and don't get in on the bash fest.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,230 Likes: 27
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,230 Likes: 27 |
JM,
You insinuated with this:
"That's nice and all. But when buying a firearm, get what suits you and don't worry about what the general public or a gun writer who claims to represent them thinks." That definitely implies that anybody who hunts should already know what "suits" them.
Many hunters don't have a clue what rifle suits them, whether in terms of recoil, stock fit, scopes, etc., all of which can be more important than the difference in ballistics between the .270 Winchester and 7mm Remington Magnum. I came to this conclusion not just by shooting a bunch of animals with both cartridges and various bullets, but by observing other hunters using both cartridges on game up to elk and moose and similar-sized African plains game. And a lot of other cartridges as well.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52,680 |
I'll shoot most anything ONCE! It pokes a nice clean hole through elk..and you don't have to worry about carrying bear spray
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
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Bob,
Earlier you mentioned that Petzal was probably a 270 shooter, or something to that effect. I recall him writing that he's killed more with the 270 Win than the 30-06. IIRC, he prefers it, but stated that he writes more often about the 30-06 since its the more popular chambering.
I like Petzal. May not agree with everything he writes, but I still like to read his stuff. And I think the 270 Win is one heck of a cartridge with tolerable recoil.
Jason
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
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Petzal is a wet-rag. Gimme' an 8lb 7mm Rem Mag every day of the week.
Tanner
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
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John,
Do you think sales of the 7RM have diminished? I know its still popular in terms of reloading die sales.
I've come close to buying a rifle in 7RM several times, but when shopping I've noticed that companies like Kimber only offer it in certain configurations (i.e. not in the Montana), and places like Cabela's don't offer it at all in some of their exclusive rifles. And, I've noticed that the 300 WM is almost always an option. I've also seen a lot of locals sell their 7RM rifles and go to a 300 of some sort.
Wasn't Boddington who did a survey of PHs in Africa in the 1980's (or was it the 1990's?) and the 7RM was very popular for plains game. He did a follow-up survey a decade or two later and I think the 7RM fell off the map with the 270 Win taking its place. The 300 mags became very popular for heavy plains game. I found that interesting.
Jason
Last edited by 4th_point; 05/06/14.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
Petzal is a wet-rag. Gimme' an 8lb 7mm Rem Mag every day of the week.
Tanner How old are you? 
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,928 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
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Never insinuated newbies were dipschitts, so I don't know where that comes from.
I've introduced and mentored more than my fair share of kids to shooting/hunting over the years and have a fairly good understanding of what it takes to go from "this is a gun" to being a capable hunter.
Much of Petzal's article is true. There are many occasions where a .270 will be just as effective as a 7 Magnum.
His writing and choice of words wear the condescending tone of those in the "know", which seldom makes newbies feel at ease and often has the opposite effect in my experience.
Yet Petzal fails to mention applications where the 7 will have certain advantages.
His failure to include this makes me question his "objectivity" and commitment to help the uninformed that you mentioned in your post.
If knowing there are applications where the 7 will outshine the .270 makes me a campfire expert, all I can say is thanks and that I believe all aspects of a cartridge should be considered before passing judgement.
IME, having all the information let's the inexperienced make better decisions. Just where does the 7 Rem Mag really excel over a 270? On big game at 800 plus yards? BFD. That's sort of like saying a 577 Nitro is better than a 458 Win Mag for shooting rhinos. Neither the 800 yard shot or killing a rhino should ethically or legally be done, so the argument is moot.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
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I was delighted when my big bull elk up in the Wind Rivers fell to a single 175 gr Nosler Partition from my 7mm Rem mag.
Later, I got to thinking about it and came to the conclusion than the elk would have been hit just as well, and expired just as quickly had I used my .30-06 or .308 Win and a good bullet.
Again, just a sample of one. And I take nothing from the 7mm Rem mag, it was and is a very good hunting cartridge!
Regards, Guy
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
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Though I strongly suspect many of the "tough guys" who supposedly aren't bothered by recoil don't shoot enough to know any better. THIS! you girls want to shoot my 416 Rem Mag? Heck yeah! Be fun to compare it to my Rigby...
This is a shooting forum, there is no place here for logic.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
So, with due regard for Dave Petzal's views on the 7 Rem Mag, I think at least for now, I will have to pretty much ignore it.  Besides Bob, everybody knows that the 7mm Rem mag is just a noisy 280 Ackley............ 
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Klik,
You caught us! Nothing has improved since IMR4350 appeared in 1940, which does everything anybody ever would need in the 7x57 and .375 H&H, the only cartridges any hunter would ever need for any sort of big game. Let you in on a little secret�.Hunter works really well in the 30-06 with 180s�kills moose really well clear out to 300 hunnert yards too (in my most recent sample of one ). I read about that combo somewhere; thinking you might like it if you try it.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
RD that extra powder will make a guy deaf
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,423 Likes: 2 |
I once shot a whitetail with a 7mag behind the shoulder,through the ribs on both sides and it broke the shoulder scapula on the on side.And yes it was DRT.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
One of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot was one of my hunting buddies Sako Finnbear in 7mm Remington mag. I'd dare say that most custom makers would have been thrilled if their rigs left their shop shooting like that rifle did routinely.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,003 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,003 Likes: 6 |
John,
Do you think sales of the 7RM have diminished? I know its still popular in terms of reloading die sales.
I've come close to buying a rifle in 7RM several times, but when shopping I've noticed that companies like Kimber only offer it in certain configurations (i.e. not in the Montana), and places like Cabela's don't offer it at all in some of their exclusive rifles. And, I've noticed that the 300 WM is almost always an option. I've also seen a lot of locals sell their 7RM rifles and go to a 300 of some sort.
Wasn't Boddington who did a survey of PHs in Africa in the 1980's (or was it the 1990's?) and the 7RM was very popular for plains game. He did a follow-up survey a decade or two later and I think the 7RM fell off the map with the 270 Win taking its place. The 300 mags became very popular for heavy plains game. I found that interesting.
Jason My LGS won't even carry the 7 mag in new guns. He says they're hard to sell because everybody who wants a belted magnum now wants a 300. He says the fad changed.
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,806 Likes: 1 |
Never insinuated newbies were dipschitts, so I don't know where that comes from.
I've introduced and mentored more than my fair share of kids to shooting/hunting over the years and have a fairly good understanding of what it takes to go from "this is a gun" to being a capable hunter.
Much of Petzal's article is true. There are many occasions where a .270 will be just as effective as a 7 Magnum.
His writing and choice of words wear the condescending tone of those in the "know", which seldom makes newbies feel at ease and often has the opposite effect in my experience.
Yet Petzal fails to mention applications where the 7 will have certain advantages.
His failure to include this makes me question his "objectivity" and commitment to help the uninformed that you mentioned in your post.
If knowing there are applications where the 7 will outshine the .270 makes me a campfire expert, all I can say is thanks and that I believe all aspects of a cartridge should be considered before passing judgement.
IME, having all the information let's the inexperienced make better decisions. Just where does the 7 Rem Mag really excel over a 270? On big game at 800 plus yards? BFD. That's sort of like saying a 577 Nitro is better than a 458 Win Mag for shooting rhinos. Neither the 800 yard shot or killing a rhino should ethically or legally be done, so the argument is moot. PG's response hits the nail on the head I think. There may be gains with the 7 mag but they are only relevant to a niche crowd. Most other hunters would be much better served with a lighter, milder recoiling 270. Just my .02
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,230 Likes: 27
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,230 Likes: 27 |
Klik,
Thanks for the tip on Hunter and 180's!
I wouldn't have much to write about if not for Campfire members like you and Shrapnel--who turned me on to plastic-tipped varmint bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4 |
I take it that is Ramshot magnum hunter powder with the 180s? what charge?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630 |
In my part of the world the 7 mag is the most disrespected cartridge in the bush. Everyone wants a 338 or 300. Mind you the same folks who bash the 7 mag couldn't hunt their way outta a paper bag with a flashing exit sign.
I like it.
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