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My safe is mostly full of evil black guns, 7 of 'em IIRC. Undoubtedly no overlap there.......... That's the whole idea, its called interlocking fires, as well as a damned good investment.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Entirely applicable to a discussion of hunting rifles.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Entirely applicable to a discussion of hunting rifles. You brought it up.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,749 Likes: 1 |
Tanner, I've not used the Amax, but I shot the 162gr Hornady HBT some and in my 26" 7RM Hart barrel 3050fps is easy. My rifle has a non standard throat however. Again, for what it's worth IMR7828 has given me the best groups at 300yds too. My range has a 700yd gong and if gongs could run and hide a good 7MM bullet at almost 3100fps would cause it to want to.
Last edited by super T; 05/09/14.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
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My problem with the whole idea of dumbing down the advantages of modern equipment to suit the skill set of the average shooter, is that equipment capability has always determined what can be achieved, not the current skills of the average user. To clarify, the human being is an amazing thing, and is capable of constantly expanding its abilities and capacities to match the tools at its disposal. If we limit what the "average shooter/hunter" is capable of by saying that he really doesn't need any equipment advantage because he doesn't have the knowledge or skills to utilize that advantage, we are limiting the progress of hunters and shooters as a whole.
I'm sure the spear throwers had the same conversations at the advent of the bow and arrow; "we really don't need a stick with a string to throw our sticks farther, the average hunter can't hit an animal much farther than 5 big steps away, anyway". Or with the advent of the first cartridge-firing rifles, shooting "high velocity" bullets- "I can't even see farther than 50 yards anyway, what do I need a rifle that shoots a little bullet that fast for? My .54 front stuffer kills critters great out to 50 yards".
Even in the last 15 years, I would venture to say that the proficient range of the average rifleman has increased significantly. I remember reading 15 years ago that 300 was a bloody long way off. I'd say 400 yards is the new 300 yards with the advances in scopes, powders, and bullets. People increase their skills and knowledge to match what is possible with modern technology and equipment, not the other way around. Progress and ballistic advantages are moved forward one small advantage at a time, and the better the average shooter becomes educated about these small advantages, the better prepared he is to use them and improve his skills to fully utilize them.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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well, I've read most of the thread, and I still think the 7 RM is one of those competent calibers, sorta like a .25-06, a .308 Norma, or a .300 H&H, that will do the job for many different hunts. But were I building a muy fuerte rifle for muy grandes, I think it would be a .270 Roy, or 7 RUM, or STW... I do know where there's a Ruger #1 in 7 RM, which is a nice rifle, and with its 26" barrel and (probably) long throat, it could really stretch the legs of the cartridge. Then again, I also know where there's a .450 Nitro Express that's calling my name, too. Go figure 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well I like the 270 but have decided to remove .277 from the diameters I reload for. Why? because I have 3 7mm rifles, a 7x57, a 280 AI and a 7RM. I am going to sell the 7RM not because it isn't a great cartridge in an accurate rifle but a friend of mine has wanted it for some time and it will do very little my 280AI can't. I have killed one elk with the 7RM and this was done quickly and cleanly using the 175 gr. Hornady pushed to 2900fps. My only real complaint about this rifle is that it is too pretty for me to hunt with.
Dog I rescued in January ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/yYDjsxrQ/IMG-0124.jpg)
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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Apparently, there's something magic about the 7x57 as well.... In that it nips at the heels of its forerunner, the 280 Remington. That's pretty good company.  Just pokin' fun at ya.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,951 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,951 Likes: 3 |
....I still think the 7 RM is one of those competent calibers....like a .308 Norma.... Now yer talkin'!! I'd take a 308 Norma any day over a 7 RM.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
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My problem with the whole idea of dumbing down the advantages of modern equipment to suit the skill set of the average shooter, is that equipment capability has always determined what can be achieved, not the current skills of the average user. To clarify, the human being is an amazing thing, and is capable of constantly expanding its abilities and capacities to match the tools at its disposal. If we limit what the "average shooter/hunter" is capable of by saying that he really doesn't need any equipment advantage because he doesn't have the knowledge or skills to utilize that advantage, we are limiting the progress of hunters and shooters as a whole.
I'm sure the spear throwers had the same conversations at the advent of the bow and arrow; "we really don't need a stick with a string to throw our sticks farther, the average hunter can't hit an animal much farther than 5 big steps away, anyway". Or with the advent of the first cartridge-firing rifles, shooting "high velocity" bullets- "I can't even see farther than 50 yards anyway, what do I need a rifle that shoots a little bullet that fast for? My .54 front stuffer kills critters great out to 50 yards".
Even in the last 15 years, I would venture to say that the proficient range of the average rifleman has increased significantly. I remember reading 15 years ago that 300 was a bloody long way off. I'd say 400 yards is the new 300 yards with the advances in scopes, powders, and bullets. People increase their skills and knowledge to match what is possible with modern technology and equipment, not the other way around. Progress and ballistic advantages are moved forward one small advantage at a time, and the better the average shooter becomes educated about these small advantages, the better prepared he is to use them and improve his skills to fully utilize them. Your assessment of technology advances is certainly spot on, and I have no problem with those advances per se. One season of hunting with a T/C Hawken showed me why folks were so happy to see the advent of cartridge firearms. But (addressing the general forum now) with all of these advances in technology and bullet BC's and all, has anybody ever thought about just stalking closer?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,230 Likes: 29 |
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,561 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,561 Likes: 7 |
My problem with the whole idea of dumbing down the advantages of modern equipment to suit the skill set of the average shooter, is that equipment capability has always determined what can be achieved, not the current skills of the average user. To clarify, the human being is an amazing thing, and is capable of constantly expanding its abilities and capacities to match the tools at its disposal. If we limit what the "average shooter/hunter" is capable of by saying that he really doesn't need any equipment advantage because he doesn't have the knowledge or skills to utilize that advantage, we are limiting the progress of hunters and shooters as a whole.
I'm sure the spear throwers had the same conversations at the advent of the bow and arrow; "we really don't need a stick with a string to throw our sticks farther, the average hunter can't hit an animal much farther than 5 big steps away, anyway". Or with the advent of the first cartridge-firing rifles, shooting "high velocity" bullets- "I can't even see farther than 50 yards anyway, what do I need a rifle that shoots a little bullet that fast for? My .54 front stuffer kills critters great out to 50 yards".
Even in the last 15 years, I would venture to say that the proficient range of the average rifleman has increased significantly. I remember reading 15 years ago that 300 was a bloody long way off. I'd say 400 yards is the new 300 yards with the advances in scopes, powders, and bullets. People increase their skills and knowledge to match what is possible with modern technology and equipment, not the other way around. Progress and ballistic advantages are moved forward one small advantage at a time, and the better the average shooter becomes educated about these small advantages, the better prepared he is to use them and improve his skills to fully utilize them. Your assessment of technology advances is certainly spot on, and I have no problem with those advances per se. One season of hunting with a T/C Hawken showed me why folks were so happy to see the advent of cartridge firearms. But (addressing the general forum now) with all of these advances in technology and bullet BC's and all, has anybody ever thought about just stalking closer? I like having options Sometimes I prefer to stalk closer than necessary, given the conditions. Other times conditions may not warrant getting closer due to time, too many animals in the herd watching me, wind direction, etc. It never hurts to be able to connect near or far 
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,003 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
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....I still think the 7 RM is one of those competent calibers....like a .308 Norma.... Now yer talkin'!! I'd take a 308 Norma any day over a 7 RM. I've owned both. I liked the 7 a lot more. It wasn't as bad a kicker and I didn't have to form brass. For the .308 I resized .338 brass and it ended up too short until like the fifth firing.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
My problem with the whole idea of dumbing down the advantages of modern equipment to suit the skill set of the average shooter, is that equipment capability has always determined what can be achieved, not the current skills of the average user. To clarify, the human being is an amazing thing, and is capable of constantly expanding its abilities and capacities to match the tools at its disposal. If we limit what the "average shooter/hunter" is capable of by saying that he really doesn't need any equipment advantage because he doesn't have the knowledge or skills to utilize that advantage, we are limiting the progress of hunters and shooters as a whole.
I'm sure the spear throwers had the same conversations at the advent of the bow and arrow; "we really don't need a stick with a string to throw our sticks farther, the average hunter can't hit an animal much farther than 5 big steps away, anyway". Or with the advent of the first cartridge-firing rifles, shooting "high velocity" bullets- "I can't even see farther than 50 yards anyway, what do I need a rifle that shoots a little bullet that fast for? My .54 front stuffer kills critters great out to 50 yards".
Even in the last 15 years, I would venture to say that the proficient range of the average rifleman has increased significantly. I remember reading 15 years ago that 300 was a bloody long way off. I'd say 400 yards is the new 300 yards with the advances in scopes, powders, and bullets. People increase their skills and knowledge to match what is possible with modern technology and equipment, not the other way around. Progress and ballistic advantages are moved forward one small advantage at a time, and the better the average shooter becomes educated about these small advantages, the better prepared he is to use them and improve his skills to fully utilize them. Your assessment of technology advances is certainly spot on, and I have no problem with those advances per se. One season of hunting with a T/C Hawken showed me why folks were so happy to see the advent of cartridge firearms. But (addressing the general forum now) with all of these advances in technology and bullet BC's and all, has anybody ever thought about just stalking closer? I like having options Sometimes I prefer to stalk closer than necessary, given the conditions. Other times conditions may not warrant getting closer due to time, too many animals in the herd watching me, wind direction, etc. It never hurts to be able to connect near or far I prefer to shoot game at bow range, but Im setup for the long ball too. Like Jordan said, its nice to have options and an all around rifle that works for both long and short shots.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 81
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 81 |
This thread is one of the finest examples of minutia that I have ever seen. A dead horse and a few rattan canes and we would be all set. No one is going to win this argument , or, answer the original question of why Petzel hates the 7mm mag. Please continue as popcorn has been made and this show is very entertaining.
That being said I don't think any one here would give up hunting if limited to either the 270 or 7mm.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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After seeing a couple hundred head of big game go down, I cannot think of one instance where a 7mm Mag firing high bc bullets would have been necessary, or even wanted.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,003 Likes: 6 |
This thread is one of the finest examples of minutia that I have ever seen. A dead horse and a few rattan canes and we would be all set. No one is going to win this argument , or, answer the original question of why Petzel hates the 7mm mag. Please continue as popcorn has been made and this show is very entertaining.
That being said I don't think any one here would give up hunting if limited to either the 270 or 7mm. Nine posts over four years and you break your silence to spew that?
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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After seeing a couple hundred head of big game go down, I cannot think of one instance where a 7mm Mag firing high bc bullets would have been necessary, or even wanted. I can think of several
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,109 Likes: 6 |
Don't Know where Ingwe is, but once he see's this thread I am sure he will run out and get a .270.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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