Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters slug gun: fixed barelled deerslayer vs 870

Hello,
I'm new to the 24 hour village so I'm not too sure how it works but here it goes... I need to thin out my safe. I have a deerslayer storm 2 fixed barreled slug gun (12 guage) and an 870 with a cannaliever-rifled slug barreled also a 12g. I'm new to deer hunting and would assume if each gun were matched to the right ammo, both would be work just fine. Does anyone have any thoughts as to which one is more accurate? Is the Ithaca so significantly better that I should keep it and for go the fact that the 870 is much more versatile i.e. ducks, sporting clays, and an all around do what has to be done ...gun
Thank You,
Hardcut

I dont know anything about the ithaca, but is it at all heavy? I got a buddy with the NEF single shot 12ga slug gun (itty bitty thing) and that rifle has just absolutly wicked recoil. Hurts me to watch him sight it in. Thats all I know about slug guns.

Both are good BUT I would go with the 870

I have the same set-up on my ancient 870, and it is very accurate with about any slug load, but especially so with sabot loads. Makes for a very versatile hunting gun....

MD

I had a slug barrel on my 870, I usually could get about 2 1/2 inches at 100 yds with slugs that the gun liked.

From a recoil standpoint, I think all the slug guns are pretty brutal, especially during sight in from the bench.

Thanks all
The Ithaca Storm 2 is fairly light 8 to 9+ lbs w/ scope. The 870 minus scope is only 5 lbs (w/cannaliever). Does anyone recommend mercury inserts to reduce recoil? This particular 870 is going to be a bone crusher, mine not the deer's! 5lbs seems awfully light, is this a typical weight for the 870?
Sincerely, Hardcut

In most every way you can measure it, the Ithaca is a better gun than the 870. That�s not to say that the 870 is a bad gun at all, in fact it�s a great gun, just that the Ithaca is a bit better.

Where accuracy is concerned, I wouldn�t lose any sleep over this issue. Slug guns are not recommended much past 150 yards and a 1� difference in accuracy is unlikely to significantly change the outcome of a hunt at that distance.

When choosing between the two, look to things that affect you personally, like the recoil equation. Shoot them both and see which one beats you less. Which has the best trigger. Which is the most aesthetically pleasing and brings the most pride of ownership, etc. These are the things you should be considering because accuracy will be adequate for both guns.

As far as I�m concerned, you really can�t lose with either gun; they�re both tops.

Hardcut - Got to ask, how did you come up with a 5# 870 slug barrel equipped w/cantilever in 12 gauge?

Curious,- was this a home built or custom?

Thanks!

Remseven, I reweighed that 870 and it's actually 7.4 lbs w/ a Hastings aftermarket barrel. Note to self... zero scale before weighing shotgun!
Hardcut

Man, that 37's an awful good gun. You've got a tough choice here. Do you have another shotgun that's suitable for small game and ducks? If so I'd hang on to the 37. If not, the 870's got to be the logical choice. I've never shot a Deerslayer that wasn't accurate. I shoot an old 870 with a permanently mounted slug barrel on it. Having shot both guns, I can tell you that neither one is easy on the shoulder when shooting from the bench. I've killed a lot of deer with that old 870, but I've always considered a good 37 to be every bit the equal of the 870 as a slug gun. I guess it comes down to weather or not you need the 870 for it's ability to accept interchangeable barrels.

The Deerslayer will probably outperform the 870 with the old Fischer style pumpkin ball slugs.The 870 with the rifled slug barrel will probably outperform the Ithica with Sabot type slugs.A lot , therefore , depends on the ammo you intend to use.You can also get smoothbore slug barrels in several configurations for the 870 to handle the old style slugs if you prefer them, plus literally dozens of other special purpose barrels.The 870 is rugged and versatile.If I were you , I'd seriously consider keeping them both.

I would love to keep both. With the exception of a gaudy commemorative, I've regretted every gun that I've ever sold, but I should let one go� domestic politics you see. Question: Does the Deerslayer Storm's fixed 24� rifled barrel have any practical advantage over the 870's 21� rifled barrel. Enough of an advantage, that it would outweigh the 870's versatility to be other things? Of course ultimately I should just pick one, learn to shoot it well, learn to hunt deer and enjoy the bounty of this God given land� but I digress.
I appreciate the feedback.
Hardcut

The only way you're going to know how much advantage either has over the other is to do some serious ammo testing.Rifled barrels on shotguns as well as rifles can be very finicky.You might find that each does equally well, but with different loads.
Theoretically the fixed barrel should have some advantage,but only extensive shooting will tell you for sure,and how much advantage if,in fact , there is one.
I have an 870 , and an old scope sighted ,fixed barrel ,Squires Bingham , which was a copy of your Ithica.
They have both done yeoman service , the 870 since 1968 ,the Squires Bingham since about 1973.
I have used the 870 for slugs with good effect,but mostly for upland birds ,rabbits , and informal trap.The Squires Bingham is a dedicated slug gun for me (smooth barrel) and has accounted for several deer in my hands and as a loaner.
Almost all deer taken with it were at 60-75 yards, all pretty much bang flop.At 75 yards it will consistently shoot into about 5" with old style slugs , which is pretty darned good.
The trajectory starts to tail off dramatically after that, but I'm fairly confident that it would be fairly effective to 100 , perhaps 125 yards for someone who has practiced diligently.
Saboted slugs out of rifled barrels should be effective and accurate out to perhaps 150 yards in my experience , though many claim 200 yds.
I suspect many of those 200 yd shots won't hold up to a good laser rangefinder, just as many 400yd. and 500 yd. rifle shots won't hold up to accurate rangefinding.

Thanks for reply, you got me excited there for awhile.

I hunt some areas that are shotgun only, and have been using a 20 rifled 870 becuase it carrys more rifle like than the twelve does. Since they have came out with the improved 20's, they have adequate power, but sure would like one around the 6# mark, scoped, for all day carry.

Guess I'll just have to keep hoping!

If I were in the same position I would determine the fair market value of the Ithaca since their fall recently. The 870 is very versatile and you can buy a bird barrel for it and you have two guns. Then I would test the two of them to see which works better. Keep the best one. If it is a draw and the Ithaca sells for a premium, go with the 870 and buy that other barrel. I own two 870's and traded the third recently so that is my resume...

[quote]I have the same set-up on my ancient 870, and it is very accurate with about any slug load, but especially so with sabot loads. Makes for a very versatile hunting gun....

Mule Deer,
By the above quote, did you shoot "Foster" type slugs through your rifled barrel too? If so, did you experience excessive leading? I bought a 12ga 870 with a rifled barrel and am fixing to shoot some Managed Recoil Buck Hammer (expensive) slugs through it. I e-mailed Remington about shooting "Foster" type slugs through my gun and they said that their rifled barrels were designed for sabots and that I would experience leading if I shot "Fosters" through my gun. The person also implied that accuracy would not be very good either. You typically test things out a lot, so I was wondering. I'd believe you over the Remington person.
[bleep]

IMO, the Ithaca is the queen of pumps. Keep it if you don't need to use it for a duck gun.

If you have to change barrels, then you don't have much choice but to go with the 870.

Don't know what to tell you - so will go with experience in quite a few 870's.

Foster type, or lead bearing in a rifled 870 barrel WITH Winchester Fosters (the cheap white box K-Mart stuff, these are also Rem barrels, not Hastings, Mossberg, Rem. barrel production only: You will see accuracy to the 3 to 7 rounds shot through barrel. Depending how good you are touching that thing off on the bench, you will notice accuracy beginning to detoriate somewhere around the 5th to 9th round. When you carbon clean the barrel, you will see why at the throat and beginning of the rifling. That is leading, and it will come out with elbow grease. |If want a quick clean, get the Lewis Lead remover for shotguns (Brownells. It is the same deal lead bullet shooters used to use in the old days of revolver matches, and it will WORK to clean lead out fast.)

Now it is up to you to decide HOW MANY SHOTS you will need ACCURATELY to get that deer on the ground.

This my experience, not telling you what you will see. All guns and ammo perform different with different barrels and ammo.

With the saboted round in barrels, if you are NOT experiencing 5 to 6 inch groups at 100, I would look for another brand to try. THE KEY WORD IS TRY. No one likes to spend 12 to 20 bucks for five rounds, but is neccessary when tuning individual guns for the gun's preference.

If you are worried about expense, think you might be surprised what Fosters will do in a smoothbore or rifled, just remember they will lead quicker and more sevee in the rifled, just slower in the smoothbore. I would look for no less than 5 or 6 " @ 100, five shot strings.

One thing I would recommend with the 870 if scoped (some will disagree I'm sure, again from experience) do not load the 870 magazine with more than 2 slugs when sighting in. Other words, two in magzine, one in chamber. Good rule when hunting unless needed otherwise for whateversituation. Could ave a scope, and I'm talking the "big" name scopes. Same would apply to to other tube feeds also. Haven't blown one since adopting this (|knock on wood), you are dealing with "reverse" recoil forces there.

Again, experience here, you may find differently, it is a judgement thing.

Please excuse typos, trying to beat lightening storm coming in.

The only way to know which is more accurate is to invest some big $$$ in slugs and try. I've got a LOT of experience in shooting slugs thru shotguns and the only conclusion I've reached is that each gun is a law unto itself. Some generalities are that smoothbore barrels don't normally do well with sabots, and rifled barrels usually do. Most smoothbore barrels I've shot are lucky to do 3" 5-shot groups at 50 yards.

That being said, I have only shot two with rifled barrels, the first being a heavy barrel NEF 12 guage. It was a friend's gun that I borrowed I didn't want to invest a lot of money in experimenting but groups were in the 6" + range at 100 yards with the 3 or 4 brands I tried.

I've owned a Rem 870 for about 15 years and with the 21" Turkey (smothbore) barrel it would do around 4" at 75 yards with it's favorite- the Remington "Slugger" in either 2 3/4 or 3" magnum. I recently added a cantilever barrel to it and was disappointed after running about $200 worth of slugs thru it and getting no better than 2 1/2" 3-shot groups at 100 yards, partially because so many gunwriters claimed to have gotten that with their smoothbores 20 years ago. Realistically it is plenty good enough.

Then I happened to try a box of Rem "Buckhammers". These are one of the newer slugs and look like a full wadcutter. Holy Cow!!! I got a cloverleaf at 100 yards with the 3 shots I had left after walking the shots onto the target with the first 2. I went back to town and bought two more boxes thinking it was probably a fluke. Then I put all 10 into about 2 1/2" at 100 yards!!!

Whether or not they will perform as well in your guns, who knows? A friend asked for a recommendation and I suggested he try them first and he got similar results. By the way, they will "put a hurting" on a deer too. I shot a small buck at 50 feet and got about a 3" entrance wound and about 6" exit wound after going thru the ribs! I plan on having more results this fall.

I have the same set up, a Ithaca Deerslayer ll and a Rem870 with a rifled barrel. I prefer the Ithaca as it seems to handle more brands of slugs accurately than my 870. I usually get very good groups with the Rem Copper Solids and the Lightfields. Both guns will never shoot worse than 4 " regardless of what I put through them, but often with the copper solids my Ithaca will go into 1 1/2" at 100 yards. To me that is pretty good as I have shot rifles that don't do that good. I also like the Ithaca for the high comb and the added weight, not to mention I feel the quality of the Ithaca is superior to the 870. There are virtually no stamped parts and the ones made in King Ferry were always hand fitted to some degree. Bottom line is,, either will work well, just pick your brand of poison