Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Frustration with accurate 6.5 swede loads

Hoping I might be set upon the proper path with some suggestions. I have an m70 Zastava in 6.5 swede topped with a Swift 4x12 scope. Rate of twist according to Zastava is 230mm = 1:9 I want to use 140gr bullets if possible. Currently I'm using Sierra Gamekings to test with, but I have remington, noslers and speer boattails and plain bases to work with as well.

I am having trouble finding an accurate load. I am fairly new to rifle loading for accuracy so I am probably taking things out of order or doing unnecessary steps. I have access to a variety of powders and bullets so a lot of experimentation is possible. My groupings are on paper, but I'm only getting 3-4 inch groups at 100 thus far. I now have a Forster neck sizer for the case.

I have used the scope on another rifle with very good results.

I have several pieces of 1x used brass which I have full length re sized and trimmed with a lee case trimmer.

My process was to measure each case to ensure I was using the same length.

Load a bullet in an unprimed case to get the bullet as close to the rifling as possible.

Then I started using different powders with the same bullet in batches of 5.
I think this is where I ran into problems. I got lost in my documentation of trying to figure out what would work.

Could anyone suggest a methodical idiot proof way to find the accuracy potential of my rifle?

Save yourself a lot of stress and money, consult manuals & pick bullet weight that does what you want & the powder that gives highest velocity(to start with). Than use Dan Newberry's OCW(Optimal Charge Weight)method. It has always worked for me!
You can chase something right into the grave &/or poverty which is fine if all you want to do is test chit. I want a good load that does what I want & then go shoot stuff!
Good luck
Cheers

I don't use a fancy method, but it works for me. I take out my newest Lyman book (49th) and find a powder that suits the cartridge and hope that I have that powder. If not, I go to the closest burn rate powder that I have and choose that. I start around the middle of the min/max range and load up 3 (5, if I just cleaned the bore, and then use two as foulers). Now here's where I have an advantage. I have my own 100 yard range, bench, and workshop, so I can load 3 try them and then load 3 more. Now there are folks that will tell you that 3 rounds isn't enough. I personally believe that 3 rounds won't tell you this is the perfect load, but it will tell you that it's worth a retry or don't bother with this load again. So if I get a good 3 round group, I'll go load up 2 more and make it a 5 round group. As you work your way up to near max, you may have several good 'potential' loads. I keep detailed notes on an old steno pad for each tested load as to what the group looked like (vertical spread, round group, two in one hole, etc.). When that's done, I'll try the loads again that looked good. I usually clean the bore at about 15 rounds or so, just to keep all the testing at approximately the same degree of fouling. I just use Shooter's Choice or Butch's and get the carbon fouling out and whatever small amount of copper they catch.

I do all the above with the same bullets and the same powder and primers. No point in further complicating the testing. Most of my rifles will shoot the same weight Nosler BT's and Sierra GK's into about the same poi.

As to the cases, I'd just FL size them enough to bump the shoulder back that the cases don't require force to chamber them. You don't need fancy measuring tools for that. Just put an empty fired case in the press shellholder and raise the ram all the way. Screw down the die till it encounters the case. Lower the case, screw the die in half a turn. Size the case and see if it chambers easily. If so, lock the die right there. If not, screw it in a touch more and try again till the case is an easy fit in the chamber, then lock the die with the lock ring.

As for overall cartridge length, I normally start with the Lyman suggested length if they show that bullet. If the load shows promise, I'll load it closer to the lands in small steps and see if I get better groups. The Nosler manual shows a good cheap method for checking how far out you can seat the bullet. To do that you'll need a fine point marksalot, a bore cleaning rod, and a set of decent calipers. If you don't have a Nosler manual, you can pm me and I'll walk you through it.

If you don't have a good loading manual, you really do need one and I recommend that you read it and understand it, and then put it in your bathroom for occasional rereading. I like the Lyman 49th and the latest Nosler. I have a Speer also.

All the above is worthless if you don't have good shooting skills and at least a front rest or bag on your bench or truck hood. And if you were closer to east central Texas, I'd invite you over for some range time. Where you live, which we consider to be "far Northeast Texas", is too much of a drive.

Good advice.

I'm assuming you've check the bedding and the barrel is good. A Hawkeye borescope can be helpful if you don't know much about the bore. It can also help if you just think the bore is clean, based on how the patches look.

And, I'm assuming you have good bench rest technique, shooting great groups with other rifles.

I would check the COAL with an instrument and see how much jump I had. COALs can make a difference.

I usaully get on line and find out what loads other shooter like. Accuracy loads in the loading manuals can be helpful. Some 6.5's like 140's, other like lighter bullets. Generally Sierra bullets are accurate, you may just have the wrong bullet weight for your gun.

Some powders perform best at higher pressure and loads don't really perform until near max loadings.

As to a system, I research throughly accuracy loads and combos before starting. I like Lee Collet neck sizing dies and do check loaded rounds for runout, using a Sinclair tool, correcting with a Tru Angle tool. Runout can affect accuracy and you don't know what you have until you check it. I load three rounds with each combo and try them at the range, letting the gun cool while I shoot others. I keep notes on the target number and the load. When I get back to the shop, I record the results in my notebook for that round.

I usually chrono the most promising loads, whereas some use the chrono to work up loads. I use it to fine tune the best ones, don't waste my time on the others.

DF

I have a 6.5 Swede mil spec with about the same twist. I had acceptable accuracy using 46 gr H4831 powder, but it was only about 2650 fps. Found out it didn't like anything shorter than that Sierra 140 gr Game king. Then I tried 130 gr Nosler Accubond and 47 gr of H4831 at 2800 fps and it shrunk 1" groups to less than 3/4". The NAB is a much longer bullet and matches the twist rate much better.

My 6.5x55 loves 139 gr. Scenars and does very well with the 155 gr. Lapua Mega.

DF

Thank you very much!!! When I had another M96 it absolutely loved Hornady's 120gr bullets, and they were longer than the gamekings I think. Luckily I have some, and it would be very easy to try some. I also like the other suggestions. I will incorporate those into my routine.

I shoot a 260, and I haven't shot anything heavier than 120 gr Nosler BT's. Right now, it being pig/coyote season, I shoot the Nosler 100 gr BT's and my Tikka shoots them wonderfully. I use IMR4064 behind the 100 grainers and R17 behind the 120's.

I haven't been able to find load my Tikka T3 DOESN'T like, so I can't be of much help. I think the Tikka is a 1:8" twister. I haven't shot anything heavier than 140 grain Sierras yet, and nothing lighter than 107 gr Sierra Match, but I have some 95 Vmax on deck.

I have used H414, IMR4350, IMR4831, RL-19, H4895, and all of them shot under an inch and some of them were very close to half an inch. Most of my loads are a grain or so less that max. And I have them seated a bit longer than SAAMI specs.

Most rifles I have in my safe shoot their best just under max book loads, so I start a couple grains lighter, and go up 1/2 grain at a time. I put my loaded rounds in labled box and keep track of the accuracy with load info on the targets.

Has alwys worked good for me. And when yo make changes to your loads, only change one thing at a time, and then test it.

Very close to my load:

Win Brass
CCI 200
47gr H4831
130gr NAB

Shoots inch in the 1896 groups with irons.....much better in modern rifles....

For years I have used the Nosler loading manuals because they show the most accurate loads for the various powders and the most accurate load overall with a given bullet. Very frequently my guns preferences are very similar to what the Nosler manual predicts.

This manual also shows whether the most accurate load happens to be at the high or low velocity end of the scale. Very helpful in deciding which powder to use to start depending upon whether I want a full power load for hunting or something more moderate for plinking or casual shooting.

Jim

I've got a 260rem 1-9 and it just will not shoot 140gr bullets, Rem, Sierra, Hornady, it also won't shoot 127LRX, 120GMX or 130 Abonds, too long.
I pestered another 6.5 shooter here on the fire and he told me what I already knew, shoot shorter bullets.
Bingo, it loves 120gr and 123gr Nosler and Lapua.
My 6.5s with a 1-8 or faster twists gobble up the longer bullets as expected.

Shoot me a PM if you need a few 120s, to test and prove that your scope, technique etc. aren't the problem.

Among the many possibilities, this may be your problem.

If the cartridge is long enough that the bullet engages the rifling, pressure and MV will increase sharply. Normal random variation will move this engagement point a little bit. So maybe some of your bullets are touching the rifling and some are not, introducing substantial variation.

I usually set mine .030" short of the rifling. That way, none of the cartridges are long enough to engage the rifling.

Or, maybe one of the other things mentioned is your problem.

In my 6.5x55's there's no way to get close to the rifling. At .070 off I have the minimum neck grip. At Nosler's recommended length, I have .236" of jump. About .180 works best.

1:9 may be a bit slow with a 140grn bullet. Try 120-130 pills. I had a 1:9 that didn't like anything over 100 grns but those 100 grn partitions are deadly.

That is another reason to use the Nolser 130gr AB. It is long enough to eliminate that big jump and yet still get full seating depth for good neck tension

I have a M70 Featherwight (Win) which happens to be fussy about cartridge length in order to feed properly. Consequently good feeding is how I seat the bullets. It seems to like 120/129s pushed by the slower powders (R19/4831/7828); also 160s fed the same. 140s seem to be more finicky and I've generally found better accuracy with them by going with '4350' speed powders- no slower. Until recently I had never found a 'fast' load for 140s that would spin them toward the same spot. A H414/140 Interlock combo seems to be looking better in that regard though.

My usual method for working up loads has been to load five (or six) of each powder level starting with the highest book load and work down in 1 - 1.5 grain increments. I shoot groups starting from the bottom to judge their potential. Often you can see a pattern which clues you in on where to do more testing before you decide to 'build a bunch'. I've always liked Hornady's flat base Interlocks over Gamekings for initial testing since they give (me) better and easier groups for whatever reason(s).

I load for a bunch of 6.5x55 rifles. Winchesters and Ruger and a sporterized Mauser. A an OAL of 3.10 none reach the rifling.

Your problem is maybe perplexing as I have yet to find a bad load for the Swede. I'd start with 45.0 grs of RL-22. Somewhere from there to 48.5 grs your rifle should be running at 2,700 fps or a bit more. I've yet to shoot a Swede that won't shoot the Sierra Gameking 140 with RL-22. Ditto H-4831 or any of the 4350's or Norma 204.

I would say I'd start looking for something wrong in the bedding or somewhere if your rifle won't shoot 45.0-47.0 grs RL-22 and the Sierra 140.

I'd also think about backing the bullet off the rifling.

Are you sure the scope is good? Really sure the scope is good? A wonky scope will do what you describe too.

I suspect that your problem is the twist and bullet. My 6.5x06 has a 1-9 twist and does shoot 140gr bullets very well but, I aasked Hornady about their 123gr bullet and they said it probably wouldn't stablize, Called Sierra about the 140gr MK and they said it would stablize but the 142ga MK wouldn't. My barrel came from Shilen and looking at their web, they claim to stablize the 140+gr bullet's you need a 1-8 twist. Mine was supposed to be a 1-8 but somehow I ended up with a 1-9. Still shoot's very very well.